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First, why is this debate not about it's not okay for opposition to come up and talk to us about Russians needing to somehow invade Ukraine at some point in time because it geo politically makes sense for them to do it. What they have to do is defend the specific manner in which the invasion in 2022 happened, the speci... |
<poi> |
Do you think Putin liked every single one of his oligarchs and why were there so many windows near them? |
</poi> |
I don't know you'll have to ask Putin, I'm not going to tell you about his relationships with all of your girls but i will say that whether or not you like all of your oligarchs or some of them, this affected all of them the mechanism i gave you is universal, it doesn't apply to specific people whether or not they were... |
</pm> |
<lo> |
Panel, three main points for me to take, why, about why Putin does not regret this, Putin does not regret Russia's invasion. Firstly, how it's, How making still making impact like territorially in Ukraine. Secondly, how benefiting his national interests and thirdly are benefiting his domestic interest, but first some r... |
<poi> |
How much of a success would you consider that entirety gaining some ground two years after he started this conflict? |
</poi> |
Yeah, sure, so I'm going to kind of move on to that. But, like, it means he’s continuing to gain land. Like, he's not being defeated. I'm going to kind of move on to undermine the rest, but also, like, he's not losing because, like, the loss of life is so disproportionate in Ukraine for the Russian army or at least con... |
</lo> |
<dpm> |
Putin regrets the invasion of Ukraine in 2022 because the war didn't really go out as he planned it or as he predicted it. Firstly, their plans and the results from Ukraine were very different. Putin didn't expect the Ukrainians to last so long because, like, generally the politicians in Eastern Europe have, at times, ... |
<poi> |
Do you really think that Putin didn't know that he only had four functional Su-57 fighters and that the rest of his fighter fleet really wasn't up to stuff? |
</poi> |
Yeah, maybe he knew, but I don't think that he knew that Ukraine would have been able to last so long. That's what I'm saying. Even if he knew, the reason why he rushed into that war was exactly that he thought that he could win this easily, and he didn't. That's what I'm saying. That's why it’s so important that Russi... |
</dpm> |
<dlo> |
Panel, Putin doesn't care about voters, Putin doesn't care about elections, Putin doesn't care about oligarchs since they end up there. Therefore, weakening the West of consolidating power and spreading his influence. Obviously, he does not regrets. For two things in this speech. First, look at domestic interest, engag... |
<poi> |
Okay, you've told us that Putin doesn't care about oligarchs. You've told us that Putin doesn't care about dead families. You've told us he doesn't care about support domestically. What the fuck does he care about? |
</poi> |
Well, he does care basically, not only oligarchs but on his perception in terms of international, it has been international protection right, it has been the west weakened, either stronger in terms of territorial gains. But that we brought to you, on our side. Let's take international interest, what do we have here, fi... |
What do we get from saying proposition? They say, “Yes, we care internationally,” but we don't really care that much. We really have problems here. The DPM says, I'm going to tell you here, Putin ran on a campaign anti west, therefore going against the West, Weaken the West and have, and fundamentally says, “Look how w... |
</dlo> |
<mg> |
Everything is perfectly fine. Everything they say they're it back to's personal about domestic what debate is the international actually. Firstly, they explain to an extent about NATO and the European Union, I'm going to go for. So the one thing that we want to avoid altogether like since he came is to states be more W... |
also like what big invasion is basically, create stronger and possibly bigger European, why? Firstly, he created he managed to do something amazing, which is to convince historically neutral Finland and Sweden to join NATO, unprecedented fate, it's actually quite amazing how Many. Secondly, countries like Kosovo, North... |
<poi> |
NATO physically refused to go to war with Russia. Hence, why they don't send troops, why is this going to happen? |
</poi> |
Yes, NATO refuse, of course that's important because, A, NATO invaded Russia would have the right to invade Poland, Russia would have the right to invade any NATO member specifically, it's important because Ukraine isn't a NATO member yet. I know this kind of but if you like, if let's say, putin was in Poland, who is a... |
</mg> |
<mo> |
We have that all sides seem to agree on is, that Putin's ultimate interest is not whether Russia is good or not, is not whether the West thinks Russia is good or not but is rather how long and how hard he can control the Russian people and the Russian country until his death and this is why it's very easy for side CO t... |
<poi> |
It's unfair to compare Crimea to this specific scenario simply because there's a majority Russian population and their economic significance. But at the same time, it's less likely when taking over Ukraine, Prove, so difficult for you to actually get the great Russia you guys talk about. |
</poi> |
Yeah, I understand what you mean. I understand why it's unfair for you because it really kills your case. But if you, if closing government relies on the fact that interference in the Orange Revolution and Georgia is part of this greater idea of Russification, then I can't see why specifically Crimea shouldn't be inclu... |
</mo> |
<gw> |
I'm gonna be explaining more, be telling you what my partner said and reminding you why this is the most important case. And lastly, proving that our case trips down both opposition teams so clashes and why that's important. There are two main clashes. Everybody has been ignoring the debate that makes both sides symmet... |
<poi> |
Ukrainian War and what has subsequently occurred has made NATO and Western countries look useless and this not exactly what. |
</poi> |
No, they haven't. The reason is because trust me, we do not want to get, to go immediately okay? this is not what we want to happen right now. we do not have as a NATO country, I'm to speak from a NATO perspective. the NATO does not have the jurisdiction to fight over Ukraine it would be shitty. that's one thing they w... |
</gw> |
<ow> |
Crazy to call our case derided, when they ran the exact same opening. The main push was International stuff, mainly on NATO strengthening itself, which we got all from the Deputy Prime Minister. I'm sorry their case is completely derivative, it's ridiculous to be throwing cells in, you're in a glass house. but secondly... |
<poi> |
Speaking of comparatives, the reason why this whole thing started was because Ukraine was speaking with NATO. If the metric is the creation of great Russia, how does the example of this long war not give hope to the countries he wishes to take over in the future, thus, leading to Putin's failure on your very own metric... |
</poi> |
Sure, okay, so the reason that our case still works even given that you know, maybe Poland or Georgia. Whatever these countries may be, whatever he may want in terms of full unification. Of course that's not accessible, he can't invade every country and restart the Soviet Union now, you know what he can do, he can die ... |
<poi> |
Okay. She's losing, though. You have not proven how he's actually going to achieve what he wants, and the people in Russia still, the soldiers are still dying. There’s still an amount of money. There’s still economic instability. |
</poi> |
If you listen to Max, two things, right? First, he doesn't have to win. He just has to be the guy that stepped up and fucking tried. But secondly, all he has to do is maintain this war for a period of time to the point where he consolidated enough soft power domestically again that he can sit tight until he dies, right... |
Putin failed on any incentives in the international realm, many, many years ago. You have to engage with who putin in 2022, who he is now and whether or not he regrets that decision, insofar as that is not leading to his death, insofar as he is still in power and he's consolidating it. Putin is delivering on the only ... |
</ow> |
<pm> |
Firstly, I think it's important for us to picturize how big the shaming would be or how the shaming would be at the very first place so that there's not really much content been later to the end of the debate. Firstly, how it's going to look like: first, we're going to call out people, for example, in social media, etc... |
And it's going to be much amplified by all of this uproar that's happening, and also a lot of grassroots movements is also going to call out these behaviors from a lot of, uh, bodies. For example, not only individually but also towards the government, for example, towards all of the celebrities, like what's been happen... |
What is the urgency of this then? Because, firstly, we think that people have limited knowledge, right? Even, um, in the current status quo, knowledge is available everywhere. Not everyone is really interested in actually knowing the causes and what it implicates to them, and they do not really have the feeling to actu... |
But secondly, people would just not listen because it doesn't really implicate that any, uh, it doesn't implicate that there's any immediate behavioral impact towards them, right? People may gain knowledge from educational campaigns, for example, but this doesn't really result in immediate action. For example, many ind... |
Or, um, but shaming, on the other hand, can compel these immediate changes through societal pressure and a lot of uh responses, like guilt, for example, or fear of judgment from other people. But also, secondly, there's also a lot of, um, cognitive dissonance in a sense, right? Where people have their own beliefs in a ... |
And thus, individuals reject this educational message. But with this with this shaming, in a sense, it gives people that urgency of at least it hurts their pride for them to change, for example, right? Which means this has to come uniquely from shaming because for four reasons. Firstly, because it hurts their pride, ri... |
Or, like, um, because, uh, people constantly correct their behavior to, uh, further avoid embarrassment from other people. For instance, people who are ashamed for, like, not adhering to eco-friendly practices might quickly, for example, adopt more sustainable habits to restore their image in their social circle. For e... |
Right? But then secondly, there's so many things like peer pressure; this is also amplifies through social media, right? With trends, for example, a lot of people are following more eco-friendly approaches, like instead of using plastic bags, they start using eco-friendly bags, like tote bags, for example, for them to ... |
Which means this amplification turns into a trend that is going to, uh, actually make people listen. But also, uh, people also fear public backlash, like what I've said before. Do people would listen? What is the conclusion of the second point? This has to come uniquely from shaming because it is directly and is more p... |
But then I'm going to, uh, preempt this by saying that, oh, maybe, uh, yeah, opposition is going to say that this is going to tamper on the social movement's reputation, for example. But two responses to this, if this is going to happen, right? Firstly, you need to make sure that you actually fulfill the purpose of you... |
But we have told you the urgency of education does not work, which means people will think that, oh, they're only doing campaigns for education, for example, etc. They're not doing anything about their causes anyway. You need to raise this awareness and actually mobilize those actions to actually happen in the very fir... |
Right? And also, secondly, you are the ones that actually fulfill the purpose and values. You are the ones that actively fulfill the promise. You shame people that do not uphold your causes. You, uh, actively shame people that do not, uh, align with your principles of the movement, for example, right? The social moveme... |
With shaming also shows that their reputation and their identity is something that is to be upheld. But yes, I'm going to take one from CO. |
<poi> |
Uh, given that most individuals aren't responsible for huge social changes, how are you actually going to change the people at the top's feelings just by shaming them? |
</poi> |
Oh, yeah, I'm going to talk about that after this. Yeah, nice segue. But for, but I'm going now, I'm going to explain how this shaming not only shames the individuals but also trickles down to the forces of government to also listen to these social causes. Firstly, because it creates this public pressure towards the le... |
Which means they generate significant public pressure that the government leaders cannot easily ignore. Right? For example, a lot of people are violating environmental standards, which means, like, for example, it also highlights the gap in the government, right? For example, when these individuals cannot do eco-friend... |
Right? Which means these individuals would not want to be shamed. Uh, for example, like you tell me, oh, why are you not recycling your stuff, for example? But I could just say, oh, the government doesn't really provide me with the practices that I need to adhere to towards all of this stuff because it's just so inhere... |
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