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Not on weighing, even if they prove all of their benefits, it's still morally third party also proven when you don't get a benefit and actively split. That is the first you already flip it in opening opposition, closing opposition is going to do; I have to do a lot of help of weighing in order to win over us in this de... |
<poi> |
I thought that they were being held at gunpoint with their families in a room being forced to stay in the gang. But now the priest tells them, "Son, don't be violent," and they leave. Pick a characterization. |
</poi> |
Yeah, sorry, I don't have to pick because in top rooms there is nuance. For some people, there is no choice. For people for whom there is choice, the church facilitates that choice. This is very simple, and the judges will understand this. |
Lastly, I want to comment on metaphysics. We have no evidence that the metaphysical world exists, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There is no degree of probability to conclude that heaven and hell do not exist. with any probability Here's the thing about the impacts of the afterlife: they're infinit... |
We beg you to vote for opening opposition. |
</lo> |
<dpm> |
Hello, professional churchgoer here. I think that importantly, if my grandma found out that I was part of a gang and was killing people, she would maybe be okay with it, but if she found out I got excommunicated from the church, I would prefer hell. And I think that this is quite important because what OO tries to do i... |
So firstly, I want to take out the principle because it's very pretty, and I really want to interact with it. If it is a sin and it is the worst moral thing to do to deny somebody the path to salvation, then God is terrible, because God decides that at some point after your actions you're going to be punished. Punishme... |
So does that mean that it is unjust to ever punish somebody? Because then you send them down a path where they are not going to receive salvation anymore. That obviously is not the case. So the principle doesn't stand, but it also flips it because it says that you have the moral obligation as a religious person and als... |
So, you know, principle, if you want to debate on that. But let's talk about the realistic things here. Firstly, I want to explain the idea of, like, you are not going to be changed by the fact that you're excommunicated from the church, but also you are more likely on their side to be changed by the narratives of the ... |
Let's take the people who can get out and also are really influenced by the church. In order for OO to win this, they need to prove that hope is more important than fear. Here I'm going to call the mechanisms. If the fear of being shot or your family being threatened is the most primal thing in history and you can't br... |
But even if we believe that hope can somehow help, I think that these people, when they know they're going to get excommunicated by the church, have two options. They can choose to live, and this is a perfect opportunity for them to decide, "It is the time for me to end this." Thus, I'm going through one because I fear... |
This also interacts with the ideas that churches can help out, because note, I can't just keep going to the church and parading about how badly it is to be a gang member and how much I want to get out without getting shot in the head. So realistically, benefits are always talking about. To actually prove what you have ... |
This is going to be the tipping point to push you over. This co-ops the mechanism of OO and shows you why the fear is actually going to be important. The only thing that they realistically say is that fear doesn't matter, but note it does, as per the mechanization of you are afraid of the police or you are afraid of ge... |
So I think you are more likely to be afraid of Hell if you're a religious person. So for that category of people, this is what is going to happen. But for the people that don't care and they generally don't give a about the church, all of the mechanization and the argumentation also work. It doesn't work because I don'... |
So yes, this is restricted on the number of people who actually care about their church and care about their congregation. But I think it can even be expanded upon all the people that care about their families, and this is quite crucial because they see that it is immoral to punish people because they didn't opt into t... |
This happens the moment that you are going to be kicked out. You are aware of this, and you still choose to be part of the gang. Note the motion says active members, or what's the exact... Ah, yeah, current gang members. This means that if I leave, I'm not getting excommunicated; I'm not being punished for my mistakes.... |
Now let's analyze the impacts here. Firstly, whether or not you're likely to write people out—I already flipped most of OO's analysis here by telling you why fear is not going to be the most important thing. But note there is prior resentment for what you have done or what other people have made you do, which means tha... |
Secondarily, you are likely to take the perception of who these people are and make that into your mental calculus. So if you believe that they are still good people, you are less likely to write them out. And even if OO or CO tries to prove that you are still afraid of them, I think you're more likely that somebody in... |
Secondly, you know that the church leaders have more of a target on their back than you do, which means that you also feel protected that you're going to go after them first, so maybe you have some time to escape or you can just leave. Thirdly, you feel that at some point you're going to have a worse scenario than you ... |
Even if nobody runs them out, and this takes the best case of opp., I feel like either the leaders or the people in the mafia are going to feel like somebody might run them out, which forces them to become more cautious. That means that there are going to be fewer actions on the streets than before. There was no POI, I... |
You also are likely to be more covert. This limits the amount of crime you can actually do. It's 6:14. There is, this limits the amount of time you can actually invest into crime duty. This is crucial because it does prove to you a marginal reduction in crime. What this means is that, one, these people are likely to be... |
Secondly, this actually has long-term ramifications. One, because you experience this crime very often, you're likely to have petty theft or people getting into your house and stealing your stuff very frequently. If you reduce that on the long term, it accumulates. But secondly, people in the mob lose the ability to in... |
So what should you take at the end of my speech? One, there is a marginal reduction in crime. And secondarily, not only is this justified, but on the OO principle, apparently it is the best moral thing to do in front of God. So proud to propose. Thank you. |
</dpm> |
<dlo> |
I'll be starting my speech in three, two, one. |
Firstly, let's clarify something. I'm pretty sure that we are all experienced debaters enough to know that people are not, you know, monoliths and that people are different and nuanced and stuff like this, but I have to be nuanced about it. So there are multiple types of people who are joining gangs and who are current... |
Um, those are the... and who are here to protect their family and stuff like this they are going to stay in gang irrespective of this. so you are not deterring most of the people from leaving a gang. The only thing that you are doing essentially is making them feel horrible about themselves and making them feel like th... |
But secondly, even if you—there are other types of people who are in the gang because this is something that is most convenient to them. But there is some kind of chance for them to be able to save themselves. What do I mean by this? These are the people who are not at proximate danger but are here because this is the ... |
I want to deal more with what opening government tells us. First, I want to deal with ratting out and, you know, like the perception of gang lords and all these sorts of things. Firstly, I would like to posit that even in the absence of church, even if the church rejects them, they're still going to be a vastly positiv... |
But secondly, even if this is true, I don't think that this is not properly engaging within this response, which is that you're literally scared to rat them out because they're so infiltrated, how you say, with the police and all these sorts of things. And then they say, "Ah, but like when people are massively going to... |
But secondly, Tin doesn't say that, you know, people don't think about God. Oh, but it's just not your most proximate and primary thing that you are thinking about when you are hungry. You are thinking about how much your stomach is in pain. When you are scared, you are thinking about how much, how you say, how you are... |
So, um, and secondly, I want to talk about what kind of influence can church have on the people who are part of the gang, and this is doing because this is most of the people we are talking about because the majority of people who are in the gang are here because they have to be. They don't like it; they're here becaus... |
The comparative on our side of the house is you still believe that God loves you. You still believe there is a chance for your soul to be redeemed, and the only things that you are doing that are harmful for the society are the things that you have to do because you were forced to do it. But if you see a woman that wen... |
But next, churches that have more, how you say, money and all these sorts of things is incredibly important impact. Why is this so? Because this is what Ana says. Very often churches are funded by, how you say, these dons and words and all these sorts of things in safaris. They do not prove the harm of this, which is r... |
<poi> |
so just to defend opening government also, right? Like, before you join the church, no one's holding a gun to your head. So OG shows why you wouldn't join it in the first place, and you don't address the actual nuance of the OG. So like, listening to women, I'm also listening to you. |
</poi> |
So, uh, you—I mean, you joined the church because, like you, uh—I mean, you joined the church because like you are religious or whatever. So like, I’m not sure I understand the point of this POI. But basically what I'm trying to say is that like, when you are excluding people in the society who are the richest, like li... |
And what the churches are essentially doing with this money is that they're building shelters for the poor. They're, you know, providing educational services. They're providing babysitting services for single mothers who have to go to work. They're creating soaps to give to the people who are hungry and all these sorts... |
</dlo> |
<mg> |
Um, I'll take opening opposition at least once, preferably by voice around the fifth minute, but chat is okay, but I might not see it. Actually, just only voice, please. Okay, um, starting my speech three, two, one. |
Lets characterize the people and address the nuance in opening opposition's case. Um, they do admit that not everyone is sort of held at gunpoint and forced to join the mafia. This is the vast majority are, and we can concede that and some people are marginal, and we also can agree with that, right? Their claim then is... |
But the way to break this clash pretty easily is to Explain how if the mafia gets involved in the church at a low level, the way you perceive God and the way you perceive the church as a whole is that it's pro-mafia. Note that OG says that there are gang leaders who become role models, and they do explain this reasonab... |
So the closing government claim is a much more detailed explanation of why churches become the single focus point of recruiting a huge amount of people into this crime wave, and how the only way to defend it is to expel these members as soon as they come in. And I'll wait by like in my extension. So first of all, why e... |
Presumably, the the way to then sort of clarify this is either the mafia members are heavily regulated in a way that they don't feel unsafe, in which case I'm going to explain why that won't last, or the church then doesn't actually accept people who are scared of the mafia—victims or people who feel like they can't be... |
Or, for example, why this is the tipping point to that and why the right. So the first thing is that you now understand social dynamics in a way that you can manipulate the priests so that you can make them lose their jobs and put in people from your own family—people you respect. Or, for example, and this is the most ... |
Um, I'll take you in a second. Okay, so why is it likely that this causes recruitment, and why do we solve this? So the thing is, first of all, it's very easy to spread your own version of truth. It's not just role models and humanizing; it's the idea that God wants you to grip your life in your own hands and take back... |
<poi> |
So far as OG concedes gangs have economic capital and the literal tool of infinite intimidation, physically they don't need the rank-and-file members to join the church to influence it. In fact, they're more likely to influence it through intimidation when they're angry. But the judge is excommunicating their members; ... |
</poi> |
No, no. So, Tin, you're right, but the intimidation is harder, which Oji also said, by the way. They said that it's harder to go on the street and threaten people because the police exist. But it's not about intimidation; it's about trusting you in the gang in the first place to then get involved, to join that group, t... |
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