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[1064.82 --> 1070.22] he had an rvm fundraiser there i'm not really sure you term it uh bounty source there i guess |
[1070.22 --> 1076.26] because you would use the brand name of the platform like a kickstarter i don't know sure um |
[1076.26 --> 1081.78] and then you got your 12 000 goal that you that you even over exceeded to you had four or five backers |
[1081.78 --> 1086.98] on on kickstarter which uh looking at the time frames trying to figure out what the time frames were |
[1086.98 --> 1092.34] between the two was it about five months between or a few months between kickstarter and bounty source |
[1092.34 --> 1099.30] something like that that sounds right so i mean you got twenty thousand dollars so what happened when |
[1099.30 --> 1104.50] you got when you first get your first crowdfunding from kickstarter did you you fired your clients and |
[1104.50 --> 1109.94] and went to work for two months and then what'd you do yeah i worked and spent most of the months |
[1109.94 --> 1114.82] just trying to solve the cross-platform issue which was the first thing because the javascript |
[1114.82 --> 1120.42] module ecosystem is terribly fragmented and the goal of js git was to have this platform that runs |
[1120.42 --> 1126.10] anywhere so i had to run on chrome app platform on the web platform on the firefox app platform on |
[1126.10 --> 1130.26] the windows app platform on cordova on pretty much any javascript platform you can think of |
[1131.30 --> 1136.74] and so i spent the first several months mostly figuring that out i mean i did some get specific |
[1136.74 --> 1140.58] code here and there and a lot of it was finding out what existed and how i could use it |
[1140.58 --> 1148.18] but i'm going to admit a lot of that time was was spent trying to find a flexible way to work with |
[1148.18 --> 1153.38] all these systems what's the i guess what's the biggest hurdle between the two between all of them |
[1153.38 --> 1156.74] just uh the fact that they're just different they make different choices or how they store |
[1157.38 --> 1161.78] data how they deal with databases i mean that kind of stuff you can abstract away |
[1163.30 --> 1169.54] the the trick was how was the best way to abstract that how what kind of dependency injection do i want |
[1169.54 --> 1173.78] to use what kind of module system do i want to invent because i can't use anything existing |
[1174.82 --> 1180.02] a lot of people told me to just use browserify which i understand if you're on a desktop platform |
[1180.02 --> 1184.58] that's a great choice but i'm specifically targeting platforms that don't have a command |
[1184.58 --> 1190.74] line that don't have node right and so i want to be able to develop on these machines not just consume |
[1190.74 --> 1195.38] on these machines that was the entire point and so i can't depend on a tool chains that need a desktop |
[1195.38 --> 1202.26] machine so basically there was nothing existing i could use yeah it's like all these you might be |
[1202.26 --> 1206.74] able to learn something from some of them or at least see what their what their goods and bads are |
[1206.74 --> 1211.78] i guess you know what their fails and successes were to maybe learn from that but otherwise you're kind of |
[1211.78 --> 1217.62] hanging out in uncharted territory right i mean i i use browserify style transforms i write all my code |
[1217.62 --> 1222.82] as common js modules and then they're compiled to whatever i need for the target but all these transforms |
[1222.82 --> 1227.46] run in web workers or if i'm a node they run in something else but they but it's all implemented |
[1227.46 --> 1232.90] in the t edit platform let's pause the show for a minute give a shout out to our sponsor snap snap |
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[1287.78 --> 1295.86] well since you teed up t edit um you know you did js get um i guess out of the box i'm you know i |
[1295.86 --> 1300.82] want you to explain what it is for one and then i guess a follow-up question that would be why no |
[1300.82 --> 1305.78] crowdfunding for t edit but there was crowdfunding for js get okay so on the crowdfunding |
[1305.78 --> 1314.18] it did not go so well the second time the bounty source i set a much higher goal i set a much longer |
[1314.18 --> 1321.14] time frame because i learned that the companies can't get from idea to approval within a couple |
[1321.14 --> 1327.06] weeks they just don't work that fast like brian larue and some other people at adobe were trying to |
[1327.06 --> 1331.22] help me get adobe funding and they're like look if you give us a week of warning we're gonna have a |
[1331.22 --> 1336.82] really hard time getting you that money so i set the goal longer i set the money higher and i traveled |
[1336.82 --> 1342.42] i went to california i talked to people at all the big companies and i was getting nothing |
[1344.82 --> 1351.46] i was several weeks in and i think i just had a few thousand dollars mostly from individuals who |
[1351.46 --> 1355.78] funded me the first time around and just liked me so much they want to do it again yeah that's not |
[1355.78 --> 1362.02] sustainable at the the last second mozilla bailed me out and paid the bulk of it with a grant wow |
[1362.66 --> 1368.18] but i i learned from that that i can't live long term on crowdfunding it helps you get an idea off |
[1368.18 --> 1375.06] the ground it helps you discover if people like it but i don't believe it works long term so what was |
[1375.06 --> 1379.30] the feedback from the individual companies on t edit did it just not align with their particular goals |
[1379.30 --> 1385.22] like js get did or did you have a hard time delivering the vision well i i didn't even try |
[1385.22 --> 1391.14] to fundraise t edit so i don't know oh okay the bounty source was still js get gotcha but the the feedback |
[1391.14 --> 1396.74] i got from several of them and one of them just just bluntly told me he's like look my generation of |
[1396.74 --> 1402.98] managers does not understand giving money to an open source project if we give you money we want a |
[1402.98 --> 1409.06] contract in place and we want exclusive ownership and i was telling them no this code is open this code |
[1409.06 --> 1413.54] this code is freely available to anyone and they're like so you want me to give you money so my |
[1413.54 --> 1419.06] competitors can benefit i'm like yes because if you don't it won't exist and it benefits you too |
[1420.26 --> 1426.02] and they're like nope you think there might just be a generational gap there or maybe it just |
[1426.90 --> 1431.94] case by case i think so i mean mozilla obviously donated the most twice but they're a non-profit whose |
[1431.94 --> 1436.26] goal is the open web right and i'm doing something cool with javascript like they don't actually need |
[1436.26 --> 1439.22] jskit they just thought it was cool that i'm doing something with javascript |
[1440.66 --> 1444.74] i think adobe was the only company who actually had a use for it that donated because they were |
[1444.74 --> 1450.42] thinking of using it in brackets and something with some other stuff that's tough to i mean |
[1451.70 --> 1454.66] you know jared you asked is it a generational gap or something else i think |
[1455.70 --> 1459.22] yeah if you don't have the right person who cares and really understands and i think that's kind |
[1459.22 --> 1460.90] of what we try to do with this show is to |
[1460.90 --> 1466.34] to to not just talk about the projects but also the people behind them and the motivations and |
[1466.34 --> 1470.98] their aspirations and like you had said before the goal behind this project is pretty audacious |
[1471.70 --> 1478.18] and it's uncharted territories and shining a light on that is important because there's a lot of benefit |
[1478.18 --> 1483.22] that can come down the way from all this learning that you're doing and what it gives back but you |
[1483.22 --> 1487.38] know we have a passion for open source we understand the community and it's a lot harder to sell that to |
[1487.38 --> 1492.02] someone who just doesn't get it just doesn't care maybe they maybe they get it they just don't care |
[1492.58 --> 1499.46] and given a lot of money to something and and not seeing in quotes the roi is is really tough we we |
[1499.46 --> 1505.38] face that battle here and there too ourselves yeah it's it's tough i mean there there were companies |
[1505.38 --> 1510.10] which i'm i know benefit a lot from what i'm doing and i couldn't get them to fund because that's just |
[1510.10 --> 1515.62] not their policy that's not how they work and so it's t at a totally nice and weekends and you're just |
[1515.62 --> 1523.14] uh full-time somewhere or at the moment yes so around around new year's the js get money almost |
[1523.14 --> 1528.82] dried up and so i made one last sprint i was going to try to make a product that used js get and i |
[1528.82 --> 1533.30] could sell that product i was going for the business route maybe like maybe i could fund it that way |
[1533.86 --> 1538.58] and so if you look at my github history you'll see i worked insane overtime the first couple months |
[1538.58 --> 1544.34] of this year and i was basically just building t edit from the ground up and i tried a web version i |
[1544.34 --> 1549.54] tried a portable version and i i got stressed and just focused on a chrome app only version |
[1549.54 --> 1554.98] so i just threw away all the all the cross-platform stuff and i got pretty far in the chrome app version |
[1554.98 --> 1561.14] until i finally was really out of money and so right now i'm just i'm doing consulting work |
[1562.10 --> 1568.10] and i work on t edit when i have time but the progress is way slow because i had to stop so i was |
[1568.10 --> 1572.50] going to ask you about the the chrome app piece because you talk about you know open cross-platform and |
[1572.50 --> 1576.50] then i look at it it's a chrome app and i thought this doesn't seem to line up with its goals but it |
[1576.50 --> 1584.10] seems like it's just a just a time and money decision for now well and there's many versions of it this |
[1584.10 --> 1592.26] week actually i i made i made a little time and t edit now runs on chrome and web nice so if you go |
[1592.26 --> 1597.38] to t edit.creationx.com that's the web version and if you look in the source tree it's the exact same code |
[1597.38 --> 1602.34] there's just a few parts where it swaps in some platform primitives and turns off some features |
[1603.70 --> 1608.98] so for example in the chrome app i can access the file system so i can read and write files i can |
[1609.70 --> 1616.18] there's one feature where you can export your t edit build system final files like the built files to |
[1616.18 --> 1621.46] the file system and so you can use a chrome app to make chrome apps or i've used it for node development |
[1621.46 --> 1629.46] before i also say before we dive deep i know that uh t is probably a rough concept for most anyways |
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