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• The PHP community has been receptive to Facebook's efforts to standardize the language through a published spec |
• The spec was split from a monolithic Markdown file into chapters, which was initially suggested by the speaker |
• The community's concern that Facebook was trying to impose its will on the language was alleviated |
• The importance of a spec in a language with multiple implementations, such as PHP, was discussed |
• The PHP language has undergone version cycles, with notable skips in version numbers (e.g., 5 to 7, skipping 6) |
• The benefits of a spec include ensuring consistency and preventing accidental changes to the language |
• The usefulness of a spec is also demonstrated through ongoing language revisions, such as the introduction of uniform variable syntax and abstract syntax trees |
• CodeShip, a continuous deployment service, was mentioned as a sponsor |
• Code Ship's features and benefits |
• Backlash against Facebook's involvement in the PHP community |
• Distrust of Facebook's intentions and its impact on PHP |
• Licensing and ownership of the PHP specification |
• Facebook's choice of the CC0 license for the PHP specification |
• Comparison with other open-source licenses, such as GPL |
• Discussion of the CC0 license and its implications for the PHP community |
• Potential changes to the PHP spec based on feedback from developers |
• Introduction of the Hack language and its relationship to PHP |
• Comparison of Hack to PHP and its benefits |
• Features of the Hack language, including scalar type hinting and parameterized type hinting |
• Plans to publish a spec for the Hack language and its potential impact on the PHP community. |
• Background on a developer workstation constantly watching for code updates |
• Hack is a superset/subset of PHP, developed by Facebook, with 98% of code base converted |
• Concerns about serving two masters (PHP and Hack) and maintaining PHP compatibility |
• Hack's extra features are development-time focused, not runtime-focused |
• Tens of thousands of tests run on every single diff to ensure PHP conformance |
• Parallel effort between PHP and Hack, with some seeing it as a competitor, others as a complementary tool |
• Hack is not meant to be a complete new language, but rather something that can live alongside PHP |
• Discussion of the importance of the PHP specification and its contributors |
• Mention of the book "Extending and Embedding PHP" and the author's contributions to the PHP community |
• Discussion of PHP's design and its flaws, with the speaker calling it a "fractal of bad design" |
• Explanation of the concept of an Abstract Syntax Tree (AST) and its potential to improve PHP's compilation and optimization |
• Reference to HHVM and Facebook's approach to making Facebook fast |
• Mention of other side conversations, including uniform variable syntax and the PHP internals list |
• The speaker works at a non-profit called Pure Charity and used Top Towel to find Ruby and Rails developers |
• They used to work on a library called LibSSH2 to enable SSH functionality in PHP |
• The speaker enjoyed diving deep into the code and understanding how things work underneath |
• They worked on the HHVM project and didn't need to look at low-level code, but would like to understand it |
• The speaker has commits that likely won't be used again, but was fun to write |
• They used the knowledge to speed up compile time and shortened a file from 100 seconds to 10 seconds |
• The speaker doesn't consider anyone a "programming hero" but admires people on their team |
• Mark Williams and Jordan DeLong's expertise and contributions to open source projects |
• Concerns about the corporate takeover of open source and the loss of community-driven development |
• The importance of true open source, as opposed to "corporate source" |
• Encouragement to get involved in open source projects despite potential fears or doubts |
• The value of documentation and the benefits of contributing to open source projects |
• The contrast between corporate-driven and community-driven open source development |
• Development of documentation and code tweaks for a project |
• The importance of self-taught coding skills and open-source contribution |
• The ease of getting involved in open-source projects with platforms like GitHub |
• The benefits of open-source collaboration and community involvement |
• The role of passion and generous contribution in open-source development |
• Upcoming plans for the project and potential future collaborations |
[0.00 --> 12.64] welcome back everyone this is the change log and i'm your host |
[12.64 --> 18.16] adams dakowiak this is episode 129 jared and i talked to sarah goldman about her |
[18.16 --> 25.02] awesome work at facebook and making php fast awesome and specced this entire conversation |
[25.02 --> 30.64] is about getting the php spec out there facebook leading the way but more importantly sarah |
[30.64 --> 36.94] leading the way on that front this show is significantly delayed sarah you're awesome |
[36.94 --> 44.22] i'm really sorry please accept my apology this show is sponsored by digital ocean code ship and |
[44.22 --> 50.04] top tile we'll tell you a bit more about code ship and top tile later in the show but our friends at |
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[87.98 --> 94.56] lowercase again changelog november all lowercase very important to get a ten dollar hosting credit |
[94.56 --> 99.56] when you sign up head to digital ocean.com right now to get started and now on to the show |
[99.56 --> 106.92] we're joined today by sarah goldman she is man sarah i'm so impressed with what you're doing you work |
[106.92 --> 112.58] at facebook so that's kind of a big deal but not only do you work there but you also make facebook |
[112.58 --> 118.38] fast which i think that that's been like the mantra of facebook to be fast since the beginning so |
[118.38 --> 126.18] today we're joined by my managing editor jared santo and also sarah goldman from facebook to talk about |
[126.18 --> 132.14] some cool stuff happening in the php world specifically the php spec that's brand new so |
[132.14 --> 139.62] sarah welcome to the show thanks for having me so i guess the best way to start navigating this |
[139.62 --> 146.28] conversation might be to tee up the post that you shared on the php mailing list which was sort of |
[146.28 --> 152.02] the announcement it was kind of at oscon and um and i'm not sure if it's oscon or oscon i kind of |
[152.02 --> 156.42] wasn't sure i've never been there so i've never heard anybody actually say it until just now so |
[156.42 --> 161.74] is it oscon or is it oscon you know i always say oscon but that doesn't mean that i'm right |
[161.74 --> 168.02] what do you think jared i'm gonna go with oscon so i think oscon too okay so i wish i didn't say |
[168.02 --> 171.80] that at all then now because i feel like an idiot for thinking it's oscon why would it be os now that |
[171.80 --> 176.54] you actually say it out loud it does seem like it should be os it's open source con so that would |
[176.54 --> 181.64] yeah i don't know gotta just that's what i was thinking who says i should write some os software |
[181.64 --> 190.18] yeah right good point that's true this is a heated debate so this post was on tuesday july 22nd which |
[190.18 --> 194.38] wasn't too long ago but long enough ago that's a lot of stuff's happening between now and then so |
[194.38 --> 200.10] help us uh and jared i don't want to speak for you but i know that i'm pretty much a php novice like i've |
[200.10 --> 206.24] done some stuff with wordpress i've never written anything uh any of any extent that sarah's been to so |
[206.24 --> 211.12] i'm totally a novice in the room just asking questions so um i would consider myself an |
[211.12 --> 217.90] intermediate so intermediate yeah okay not a pro but i have some experience so hold our hands along |
[217.90 --> 223.54] the way yes please do please do but tee this up what what what happened what is what does this mean |
[223.54 --> 230.58] for the php community well i mean so php has been around for like 18 years now and just sort of |
[230.58 --> 236.68] grasp that in your mind for a second um and in that 18 years it's gone completely as an organic |
[236.68 --> 242.48] growth right it's sort of rasmus wanted something to display his resume better so he put together some |
[242.48 --> 250.20] scripts and to do that and then that kind of turned into a more of a compiled program to turn some html |
[250.20 --> 255.02] with a few little bits of code and into something real and it's all been organic ever since then even |
[255.02 --> 261.86] when andy and zev got involved to uh build php3 with more like real engine like you would find in |
[261.86 --> 268.52] a any kind of sensible language it was still organic because they were just trying to scratch their itch |
[268.52 --> 273.94] um and it's been a whole bunch of it scratching and what you wind up with is what got popularly |
[273.94 --> 279.78] described as a fractal of bad design um and you know a lot of us kind of take that tongue in cheek |
[279.78 --> 283.68] because well all right it might be a fractal of bad design but it runs most of the internet so |
[283.68 --> 290.48] whatever yeah um but it's done all this without really having a clear picture of itself it doesn't |
[290.48 --> 299.36] know um how do you define what is proper php all of the uh the the really serious languages like c c |
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