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[2261.32 --> 2267.32] that's a good way to do it i mean it seems like that approach does make sense too as a |
[2267.32 --> 2272.26] as a maintainer because you kind of get to set some of the ground rules and the guidelines which |
[2272.26 --> 2277.40] you know let's let's be honest where jared i know you have kids but you know when you have kids it's |
[2277.40 --> 2281.84] kind of like having kids in this case kind of taking this far on the left but follow me here |
[2281.84 --> 2286.52] is that like if you're doing something like this like this is your baby right so you want this to go a |
[2286.52 --> 2293.08] certain direction and without that discipline and and whatnot i'll just go and act like a bad teenager so |
[2293.08 --> 2298.98] you got to kind of keep them in order and those kind of put down some um you know some fence poles |
[2298.98 --> 2303.88] to say you know don't go beyond these areas and that would work better as a as an external library |
[2303.88 --> 2309.00] or whatever so you're kind of setting some ground rules for how the ecosystem can play out yeah |
[2309.00 --> 2317.12] absolutely um and uh so far it seems like the community's really been great i was telling my wife |
[2317.12 --> 2322.42] this this morning when i was just talking about martini and i'm really excited to see that um |
[2322.42 --> 2329.44] that community has reciprocated in a way i sometimes i look at github repositories and i look at mailing |
[2329.44 --> 2336.12] lists and there's a little bit of hostility and i think part of that um is you know contributors can |
[2336.12 --> 2342.88] tend to look up to um you know the owner of the repository as an overall attitude uh for for the repo |
[2342.88 --> 2349.94] so if people are asking questions um you know it will it's kind of a reflection of the owner um |
[2349.94 --> 2354.86] so when i see things on martini somebody asking questions seeing other community members coming |
[2354.86 --> 2362.02] in and being extremely nice about how to lay out questions for people who are new or or or guiding |
[2362.02 --> 2368.26] them in the right way i like i just i have a lot of hope um for for the actual project because people |
[2368.26 --> 2372.82] are extremely nice not only in answering other people's questions but also you know putting |
[2372.82 --> 2378.48] together an issue i i love when people and this happens so often and where they're like oh i'm |
[2378.48 --> 2382.98] having a bug with this and they describe their bug and then the last sentence is by the way martini is |
[2382.98 --> 2390.04] like so so awesome thank you so much for putting this together and that really as a as a maintainer |
[2390.04 --> 2393.42] that just really brightens up my day and it's cool to see that that's a reflection of |
[2393.42 --> 2395.62] that part of the community as a whole |
[2395.62 --> 2404.84] in the uh i guess i guess we'll call that pre-show we were chatting before the actual show so that's the pre-show |
[2404.84 --> 2409.80] right uh you're kind of talking about some of the things you're doing at kajabi and uh which is your day job |
[2409.80 --> 2413.36] where you kind of like get the hack on stuff and you're doing some things and go there but you've also done |
[2413.36 --> 2418.06] some other things and node and you kind of have this go versus node kind of wild west mentality |
[2418.06 --> 2423.32] can you talk about that a bit yeah and it's honestly i i'm a pragmatist i use a bunch of |
[2423.32 --> 2430.00] different tools so i'm not necessarily tied to either one um i just look at the problem and i find |
[2430.00 --> 2437.24] what the best tool for the job is and the the sentiment around the office here at kajabi is that node is |
[2437.24 --> 2445.26] good enough for most part for the most part uh meaning yeah you can write web apps in it and you can |
[2445.26 --> 2449.98] grow web apps in it and that's perfectly fine it's not it's not like it's a horrible technology |
[2449.98 --> 2455.96] um i would just say it's probably not my preference if i were to write a personal project i probably |
[2455.96 --> 2462.64] wouldn't go to node first um unless there was something i absolutely needed from that community |
[2462.64 --> 2470.68] um and from that ecosystem but it yeah like you mentioned it kind of feels like the wild west out |
[2470.68 --> 2476.40] there um things kind of breaking silently and it seems to be an accepted part of the community and |
[2476.40 --> 2485.52] that's fine i mean people focus on you know certain aspects um of a language and disregard others i know |
[2485.52 --> 2490.28] there's blind spots in every single language community it just it bums me out sometimes when |
[2490.28 --> 2497.24] i'm using some sort of package or or library in javascript and it's just oh i failed and i'm not |
[2497.24 --> 2503.88] going to tell you why something just went wrong um and that seems to be accepted an accepting an |
[2503.88 --> 2510.56] accepted debugging practice is to find out what goes wrong it's just not my my style uh technologies |
[2510.56 --> 2516.50] like go will pretty much tell you straight out like what what's going on there's not a ton of |
[2516.50 --> 2524.78] unknown like what what the heck does this mean kind of errors since we're talking about uh note and go a |
[2524.78 --> 2531.76] little bit um this last show episode 116 we had aaron hammer on he's from walmart labs and he |
[2531.76 --> 2539.90] obviously just had this great success story with node and black friday and um you know you know |
[2539.90 --> 2545.24] hailing banners balloons everywhere confetti all that good stuff it's like you know super wild party |
[2545.24 --> 2552.86] um because no there's some awesome stuff for them and black friday are there any stories um i guess |
[2552.86 --> 2559.00] similar or somewhat the same that happen in the go ecosystem that you know of that you can tell |
[2559.00 --> 2566.42] i mean there's the obvious google one where they uh replace their download server with go which was |
[2566.42 --> 2573.70] basically you know net http's file server um that source is right there in the in the go standard |
[2573.70 --> 2579.96] library so there's that obvious one and um there's a good blog post on it you'll you'll probably be able |
[2579.96 --> 2588.14] to find it and stick it in the show notes um by brad fitzpatrick um covering it and the there's |
[2588.14 --> 2594.66] there's a couple others that i know of um i might have to give you links after the show but uh in |
[2594.66 --> 2601.76] general it's a lot of sas companies um i know iron io uses a lot of a lot of go i know um matt |
[2601.76 --> 2606.66] amenetti at splice they they've converted a lot of their back-end tech to be using go and |
[2606.66 --> 2612.32] very successfully and i think if you even watch sites like hacker news almost daily you find some |
[2612.32 --> 2619.70] sort of go hate and go uh success story yeah kind of paired together that's kind of wild i mean and |
[2619.70 --> 2624.28] i think that's what some of the listeners listen to this podcast for is kind of like get a heartbeat |
[2624.28 --> 2628.80] on which technology is kind of maybe leading the way or going to lead the way and and maybe that's |
[2628.80 --> 2633.12] part of our role here which is to have guests on that can kind of help at least somewhat field |
[2633.12 --> 2639.06] those kinds of questions but it seems like node and go or they're both i mean go is a language and |
[2639.06 --> 2644.94] node is um you know i guess not really a language it's javascript it's sort of a framework on top of |
[2644.94 --> 2651.82] va but um you know they're going both in a good direction and you've obviously don't really have |
[2651.82 --> 2656.52] ties to one or the other you're kind of like whichever tool best fits it but a lot of people |
[2656.52 --> 2662.94] in the node community seems to be seem to be like um very very pro javascript you know like forget |
[2662.94 --> 2668.64] everything else write it in javascript everything is javascript and there's a merit to that um |
[2668.64 --> 2673.16] mainly from i would say from a training perspective some might disagree with me but |
[2673.16 --> 2680.34] i'll tell you this the junior developer at my um you know here at kajabi like we can teach him how |
[2680.34 --> 2686.44] to write a node app and he'll feel productive in it even though he's been only writing you know ruby and |
[2686.44 --> 2690.62] maybe some front-end javascript but he'll feel comfortable in that and i'd say go in the same |
[2690.62 --> 2694.76] respect is very similar to that go is not a difficult language to pick up actually one of |
[2694.76 --> 2701.26] the criticisms of go is that it's too minimal it's too simple um but that's not necessarily a bad thing |
[2701.26 --> 2708.56] in every case and i think it really depends on what what part of the industry you're in um my my side |
[2708.56 --> 2714.64] of the industry we're a very small shop we're very consumer facing um we build real products for real |
[2714.64 --> 2722.44] people and um we we deal like with that's at our forefront every day so if the technology is a |
[2722.44 --> 2728.26] means to an end for us we're not doing a ton of bit twiddling we're not doing extremely high scalability |
[2728.26 --> 2735.62] crazy um computing so for us to write our systems in haskell would be like very counterproductive |
[2735.62 --> 2741.46] um no doubt that like there's a there's an extreme use case for haskell and there's a very good use case |
[2741.46 --> 2746.20] for writing a correct program but i'm not going to sit down and teach a junior developer here at |
[2746.20 --> 2753.04] kajabi haskell um it's just not going to be productive for our use case let's pause the show |
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[2852.00 --> 2860.14] so speaking of teaching we would be remiss not to bring up gopher casts yes which appears to be a |
[2860.14 --> 2869.58] fledgling project but very cool this is gopher casts.io and you could imagine it's screencasts for |
[2869.58 --> 2875.70] learning and teaching go can you talk about it yeah so i i started this up with my uh with my longtime |
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