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[1744.10 --> 1751.48] consider doing um it's like i said every every business i've worked out in the last five years has
[1751.48 --> 1757.36] wanted to use that tool for some reason or another and generally they would have no problem paying
[1757.36 --> 1765.32] you know 25 bucks a month or whatever for a tool which does that and then you multiply that by a
[1765.32 --> 1773.30] thousand businesses that need it now you've got 25 000 a month in reoccurring income yeah there's um
[1773.30 --> 1779.50] there's a formula that goes 30 uh 30 by 500 and i didn't make that up that's amy hoy's thing and
[1779.50 --> 1785.06] alex hillman's thing um but where if you can get 500 customers to give you 30 bucks a month
[1785.06 --> 1791.38] you will have a business that makes roughly 150 000 a year you know so if you kind of break it down
[1791.38 --> 1797.46] like you have to these achievable uh yet still hard you know it's not like it got any easier but
[1797.46 --> 1802.48] they become more achievable once you break it down to these five steps you you've kind of given here
[1802.48 --> 1808.36] um and i think your model has legs like obviously it's got legs because you you you got 175k in the
[1808.36 --> 1813.86] bank that proves that it that it works well yeah exactly and and the the wonderful thing about
[1813.86 --> 1820.00] software in general is that you can do it in your spare time you know you can do it in nights you
[1820.00 --> 1823.86] can do it in weekends as long as your employer is is somewhat friendly to you sort of moonlighting
[1823.86 --> 1828.38] as long as your employment contract doesn't have issues there of course legally you'll want to you'll
[1828.38 --> 1834.82] want to verify that but um you want to make sure you're in the clear long term um but you know i
[1834.82 --> 1843.32] wrote sidekick pro and have been working full time for the climb for the last two years right and
[1843.32 --> 1848.48] the last two and a half years i was working on sidekick and sidekick pro and bringing in i was
[1848.48 --> 1853.18] bringing in a hundred thousand dollars through sidekick while also having a full-time job making
[1853.18 --> 1860.12] six figures so you can build all this stuff without much investment you know next to no investment aside
[1860.12 --> 1867.40] from some time um you know time is a luxury to a lot of people um but if you've got that you can
[1867.40 --> 1875.82] invest that time into you know your own possible future career be patient too i mean it seems like
[1875.82 --> 1880.96] you've been sitting on some patience honestly like you didn't seem like uh you were in a rush to jump
[1880.96 --> 1886.70] ship and like you know the moment you had success with psychic pro basically you weren't like oh i'm out
[1886.70 --> 1891.40] you know it so can you talk maybe a little bit about that and i think maybe jared's got some other
[1891.40 --> 1895.22] questions i don't want to stomp on your questions jared but can you talk a bit about the the patience
[1895.22 --> 1904.86] aspect of of what you've done sure yeah i mean uh having a nice a nice salary makes it much harder to
[1904.86 --> 1912.58] determine when am i going to jump ship here you know my salary is a nice steady flat stream of income
[1912.58 --> 1920.00] and then my sidekick pro income was constantly sort of slowly but surely rising up and there was an
[1920.00 --> 1926.72] inflection point where the two actually met and i was making as much or more every month from sidekick
[1926.72 --> 1934.40] pro than i was my salary that's when i started saying okay how long do i hold on here and continue
[1934.40 --> 1941.76] to draw a salary before i just say i'm going to do this full-time it worked out to about uh six months
[1941.76 --> 1950.80] about in january about january uh this year when uh the two sort of met and i said well you know if
[1950.80 --> 1955.28] this thing keeps going i there's no reason i need to be working full-time at all for somebody else
[1955.28 --> 1962.40] when i can be doing my own thing and so you know a couple months ago uh the business came to me and
[1962.40 --> 1967.94] said we've got some opportunities here and uh one of those opportunities was for me to leave
[1967.94 --> 1976.96] with a very nice severance package and i elected that and uh and and in doing so that severance
[1976.96 --> 1984.46] package effectively subsidized the the building of inspector so uh so yeah it's it's it's worked out
[1984.46 --> 1989.74] really well um and and if you're patient you can time this stuff so that it works out the best for you
[1989.74 --> 1996.32] so i think one of those other hard decisions i mean i'm looking at this as like a viable thing
[1996.32 --> 2002.30] to possibly do and i think another place where it's difficult obviously this is a business decision
[2002.30 --> 2006.94] is like where do you actually draw the line in the sand for pro features versus the open source
[2006.94 --> 2012.02] features you've done this twice now and you probably felt it out with sidekick and i think you're
[2012.02 --> 2016.82] probably you may be a little more confident with inspector um can you kind of speak generally and
[2016.82 --> 2021.94] then we'll get into inspector details after that yeah that's a common question i mean almost literally
[2021.94 --> 2030.24] the first question everybody asks me there's no easy answer um the what i've done with inspector is
[2030.24 --> 2038.04] tried to say okay what's what's an a quote-unquote enterprise feature what is a team feature what i've
[2038.04 --> 2045.12] tried to do with inspector is is make the open source functionality be the features that an individual
[2045.12 --> 2050.08] would want if they were a hobbyist and just sort of built their own server-side application
[2050.08 --> 2058.02] without a team inspector pro on the other hand has a bunch of functionality so that you can route
[2058.02 --> 2064.88] alerts to different people you can set owners of of different components so you know bob owns the
[2064.88 --> 2073.36] database but mike owns the background processing system and ted over here owns nginx or apache or
[2073.36 --> 2081.18] the app server or whatever and so that way if any of these components misbehave the alerts are routed to
[2081.18 --> 2089.32] the team members that know them best so that's that's one approach that i've taken is again what's an
[2089.32 --> 2096.74] enterprise feature what's a team type feature and uh and that's that's really all i have in terms of
[2096.74 --> 2103.22] advice it's it's not an easy question to answer and it's just something that you have to judge for
[2103.22 --> 2109.72] yourself um i'm i'm i'm i've got about five or six different features that i want to add to inspector
[2109.72 --> 2115.58] right now and it's really tough trying to figure out all right which of these should go into pro and
[2115.58 --> 2120.48] be sort of locked away from the majority of users that's that's really that's a really painful decision
[2120.48 --> 2125.84] to make because i want to give all the functionality to everybody but i know that that's just not a viable
[2125.84 --> 2136.82] viable uh solution yeah i'm curious how that affects your open source contributions when uh not just
[2136.82 --> 2141.94] okay that you know people actually getting involved in in your open source projects but then also like
[2141.94 --> 2147.32] the kinds of uh pull requests that you'll actually accept and then do you decide wow that's a great
[2147.32 --> 2153.02] feature thanks i'm going to put it in my pro well i can't do that i mean that you can't do that right
[2153.02 --> 2160.56] their license okay so that i mean if somebody is submitting a pr to me um that that's yeah i i i see
[2160.56 --> 2169.22] that as their code and when i pull it in it's licensed to me sort of based on the the um contribution
[2169.22 --> 2174.58] guidelines but i would not take somebody's code and then just make it a pro feature that's that's
[2174.58 --> 2180.70] immoral or unethical uh in my opinion agreed so what if you're what if you're thinking about
[2180.70 --> 2184.96] implementing that and then somebody does it for you i guess you just tell them you know i'm going
[2184.96 --> 2189.44] to build it myself or yeah i mean that's that's sort of the the discussion that needs to be had
[2189.44 --> 2195.08] is um yeah is is there a common ground that we can reach here maybe there's some subset of the
[2195.08 --> 2199.96] functionality that we can put into open source that's still useful but i have i have a different
[2199.96 --> 2207.70] vision for the way this feature is going to work um or you know do i just close it out right and say
[2207.70 --> 2212.02] no i'm gonna i'm gonna put this this is the type of thing that properly belongs in pro
[2212.02 --> 2221.24] i i don't want to do that but you know that's the that's the worst possible outcome in my opinion
[2221.24 --> 2225.54] something that comes to mind in that uh in that regard is what twitter did with their api they kind
[2225.54 --> 2231.20] of said to api developers like don't hang out in these areas these are danger areas these areas are
[2231.20 --> 2235.32] okay for you to hang out in we won't stomp on you but these areas are kind of areas we're heading
[2235.32 --> 2241.64] towards or things we're doing differently and they kind of like to a degree somewhat road mapped
[2241.64 --> 2247.68] what was safe and what wasn't safe yeah i mean that's a that's a great analogy um they've they've
[2247.68 --> 2254.02] had to walk a really a really fine line because they're not a pipe they're not just purely a pipe
[2254.02 --> 2259.96] for tweets to flow down you know they also want to control the the glass the way that people see
[2259.96 --> 2266.34] tweets so that they control the ads that people see and uh and that really has hit their third
[2266.34 --> 2275.08] party client uh ecosystem pretty hard and so in your case third party clients are you know prs
[2275.08 --> 2280.22] contributions open source developers kind of helping you sustain the open source side but at the same
[2280.22 --> 2284.90] time keep it progressing keep it moving forward yeah there i mean there's always a there's always a
[2284.90 --> 2291.72] tension there um where you have something free and then something paid on top of that um nobody
[2291.72 --> 2297.64] begrudges twitter for having to make a living i know that i myself i would prefer to pay twitter uh
[2297.64 --> 2304.14] you know a dollar a month you know a dollar a month is i would be happy to pay and if app.net man if
[2304.14 --> 2311.20] they take their uh their their users right exactly um they take their their hundred million users and
[2311.20 --> 2315.50] i charge them a dollar a month you know you got a hundred million a month coming in that that pays
[2315.50 --> 2322.80] for a lot of office space in san francisco um but yeah i i also understand that a social network is
[2322.80 --> 2328.90] is based on the size of the network and uh and the vast majority of people don't want to have to pay
[2328.90 --> 2335.68] for something if they can just see ads instead which is unfortunate yeah the hundred million users
[2335.68 --> 2341.18] you know drops down to 350 000 or something like that and now your network is is not as valuable
[2341.18 --> 2348.20] exactly exactly let's pause the show for a minute give a shout out to a sponsor hired.com is sponsoring
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