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**Brian Ketelsen:** Scott, I think that's the closest we've ever come to a mic drop on GoTime, thank you for that. \[laughter\] Yeah, we invented those - thanks, Erik. |
**Scott Mansfield:** Not we, Brendan Gregg. All credit goes to him. He's really, really great at what he does. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, he's like the godfather of performance. I've got his book on my desk here, which I still haven't made it all the way through. What happens with getting older and having less time? I just... I don't get it. Somebody invent more time. Could you write that in Go, please? \[laughter\] Scott, did ... |
**Scott Mansfield:** I kind of keep my head in the sand... I've been working on some features that we need for Rend to be deployed, and we had all kinds of things going on recently, so unfortunately no. I also have a - God, she's eight months old now - eight-month-old daughter, so all my free time is pretty much spent ... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That's a big external dependency right there. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah. My - I guess she's 20 months now - 20-month old daughter woke up just before we got on the call for this show. That's twice now. She times it perfectly, I think she knows. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Of course she knows. |
**Erik St. Martin:** She's like, "I wanna be on the mic, too." \[laughter\] |
**Brian Ketelsen:** She likes attention. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** She's a future podcaster. |
**Erik St. Martin:** I'll get her on the show when she can talk. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I have a project I wanted to mention. Yet Another Web Framework (YAWF). |
**Erik St. Martin:** So is that actually the name of the project, or is that what you've labeled it? |
**Carlisia Thompson:** No, that's an acronym I just came up with. But the name of the project is Iris. |
**Erik St. Martin:** I don't think I've seen Iris... So what's the spirit of it? Is it like closer to a Revel, is it closer to a Martini, or a Negroni? |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Yes, so HttpRouter... He actually has a graph here that he benchmarked - I'm assuming it's a he - the Iris package with HttpRouter, GorillaMux, Gin, Beego, Martini, the standard lib package and other ones that I've never heard of. And he claims that it's twenty times faster. I learned of it from ... |
I haven't used it, but anything that says "I'm 20 times faster" calls my attention. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So what's your feeling on this, Brian? What was it, episode two, that you made the comment about router performance...? |
**Brian Ketelsen:** \[35:58\] Can we please stop making more routers for Go? Please! \[laughter\] We have some, they're great, and that's not really where your code is gonna improve in terms of latency, so stop. Thank you. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I heard the episode and I saw that, and I had to mention it. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** You're just trolling me, Carlisia. That's not nice. \[laughter\] |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I have to try to get my way, somehow. \[laughter\] |
**Erik St. Martin:** I haven't even looked at it, I'll have to pull it up. Recently I haven't really been... I'm kind of in the Scott camp here where it comes to the frameworks... Recently I've just been writing my own stuff. Maybe I'm not building anything big enough, I feel like I need a framework for the repetitive ... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Or maybe you just don't wanna take on another external dependency that you have to babysit. |
**Erik St. Martin:** That's quite a possibility, as well. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Which is gonna make it harder and harder for us to find interesting Go projects if we're never using any. |
**Erik St. Martin:** That's very true, too. I should probably make a point out of playing with new projects. It's hard, though. You get kind of trapped in your own little world, building stuff... So what was the other thing that I wanted to talk about...? Oh, the survey. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That's right. |
**Erik St. Martin:** \[unintelligible 00:37:15.10\] the survey? There was a survey that went out... Who sent that out? |
**Carlisia Thompson:** It was Ed's. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Ed Muller, from Heroku. |
**Erik St. Martin:** That's right. He sent out a survey, trying to gauge people's usage of Go and the way they use it, the libraries they use, the vendoring tools they use... Maybe so we can agree on one. Scott, can you use one? \[laughter\] Have you tried any, Scott? |
**Scott Mansfield:** I was forced to use Godeps to deploy something on Pivotal Web Services. I think I had one dependency in, I just put it right in the vendor folder. It would not actually compile and run my code without a Godeps file. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Wow... |
**Erik St. Martin:** This is kind of like how I forced Brian to use Node one time. |
**Scott Mansfield:** Do you still have PTSD from that? |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Yeah, didn't we talk about this last week? |
**Erik St. Martin:** I still can't remember what it was - I think it was a JSON Lint thing, or some kind of tool like that I had him install, and I didn't realize it was Node, and I'll never live it down. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** No, I actually sent him an email and said, "Report to my office. You're fired." \[laughter\] |
**Erik St. Martin:** So Govendor I like. I've been using that one recently. And that seems to be kind of almost the same thing, it just uses the vendor folder that already exists, and it kind of stuffs stuff in there. I kind of like that one. I don't hate it, I should say that. But I think you're right, we're still try... |
**Scott Mansfield:** People have actually been frustrated, for example, with the AWS SDK for Go. They don't use any sort of vendoring tool, and they just have every dependency in their vendor folder. People are upset with them and they keep opening issues, but I think their position is very pragmatic, saying "There's n... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, and that's kind of what I like about the Govendor thing, because it doesn't really do much aside from stuff your dependencies in the vendor folder. At least from my understanding. I haven't seen any kind of manifest or anything like that. I've only recently started using it, but it seems to b... |
\[39:53\] One of the things with the vendoring I still haven't figured out is - and maybe somebody here can solve that for me - there's kind of the whole "You don't vendor dependencies in the library, only in the command", or do I have that flipped? Have you guys heard that, where people are advocating not to vendor de... |
**Scott Mansfield:** Yes, you actually had it right. It's mostly for just... People who are writing libraries shouldn't force a dependency, because otherwise you end up running into diamond dependencies very quickly. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, in a lot of libraries I think it makes sense, but there's others that are so big that they kind of force a version. I guess maybe they should make at least recommendations. There should be something maybe in the documentation that says "This library is known to work with these particular vers... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I think we all need Maven for Go, and that's where we're going to evolve to. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Oh my god... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I don't think there's a middle ground. This is probably an episode of its own, but I really don't think there's a middle ground. And trust me, I don't like Maven either, but how can you only do part of dependency management? How can you only do half of that? I think we have to do it all, and everybo... |
**Erik St. Martin:** And if only people could scream at you right now, Brian. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** They are, and that's okay. |
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