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**Cory LaNou:** Goodbye. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Bye! |
• Peter Bourgon's background and experience with Go |
• Early attempts at using concurrency in Go, including failed projects and lessons learned |
• Soundcloud's use of Go for internal infrastructure and applications |
• Common mistakes made by beginners in Go, including overuse of channels and misunderstanding interfaces |
• The importance of understanding the subtleties of Go language features, such as interfaces and goroutines |
• The difficulty of rewriting or erasing bad code once it is open-sourced |
• Discussion of how to approach learning and understanding Go, including the value of the language spec and seeking out explanations from experts. |
• The importance of experience and "battle scars" in understanding complex concepts, such as the Memory Model. |
• The challenges of teaching newcomers about the language without them experiencing the problems firsthand. |
• Peter Bourgon's approach to teaching Go through a service-oriented lens, highlighting its strengths and best features. |
• Microservices and their benefits, including reduced complexity and easier maintenance. |
• Peter Bourgon's experience with microservices at Soundcloud and his advocacy for using Go in this area. |
• The ideal size of a codebase is one that can be held in your head as a mental model, and microservices can help with this. |
• Microservices enable organizational harmony, improve shipping velocity, and reduce communication overhead. |
• However, there are risks to taking it too far, such as creating technical problems and duplicated services. |
• An "elegant monolith" architecture can be a viable alternative, especially for small teams or projects. |
• Package boundaries in Go can make it easier to contain code within a single repository. |
• Monorepos can be beneficial, but also have their drawbacks, and there's no one-size-fits-all solution. |
• Dependency management issues in Go |
• The "hope-driven development" approach to dependency management |
• The problem of nested vendoring and vendor directories |
• The proliferation of 13 different standards for managing dependencies |
• Peter Bourgon's proposal to form a committee to pick a standard solution |
• The current state of the community's efforts to address dependency management issues |
• Creation of a new dependency management tool for Go |
• Current state: prototype implementation underway by core committee |
• Goal: create a single standard for dependency management in Go ecosystem |
• Timeline: aim to have a usable prototype by end of year, with potential integration into Go tool in 1.9 timeframe |
• Challenges: competing standards and usability issues introduced by multiple tools |
• The benefits of a restrictive approach to package management in Go |
• Discussion around complex requirements and use cases for Go's package manager |
• Influence from other languages' package managers and idioms |
• Aliases in Go's package manager and potential drawbacks |
• Peter Bourgon's project, Go Kit, and its purpose in addressing microservice architecture challenges in Go |
• The speakers discuss Go Kit's usage and adoption rate, mentioning that many companies use it but don't publicly disclose it. |
• They mention Go Kit's channel on Gopher Slack has over 1,000 members, which is a significant percentage of the total community. |
• The conversation turns to measuring involvement in communities and estimating user numbers, with one speaker citing an "80/20" rule where 80% of users are not visible in public communities. |
• Peter Bourgon compares Go Kit to Go Micro, describing them as having different approaches to solving microservices problems: Go Kit is more conciliatory and focused on software architecture, while Go Micro is more opinionated. |
• The speakers discuss the benefits of Go Kit's modular design, which allows organizations to adopt its principles gradually. |
• Discussion of distributed tracing and logging in Go Kit |
• Trade-offs between adopting multiple features at once vs starting small |
• Comparison of Go Kit with other frameworks like Go Micro |
• Interoperability of Go Kit components with self-written code and other tools |
• New tool gops for debugging Go processes, including its limitations |
• Upcoming GothamGo event in New York City |
• Go Team's new font for Go code |
• Discussion on the usability and readability of the new font |
• Reluctance to change editors or environments despite technological advancements |
• Peter Bourgon's question about a Prometheus-like solution for log management |
• Distributed log storage and querying |
• Comparison of Elasticsearch with other solutions (Logstash, FluentD) |
• Discussion on metrics vs logs and their different use cases |
• Scalability challenges in logging at large scale |
• Differentiating between debug logging and audit logging |
• Mention of structured vs unstructured logging |
• Introduction to #FreeSoftwareFriday segment |
• Discussion of alternative search tools to grep |
• Mention of ack and The Platinum Searcher as viable alternatives |
• Shared experience of panelists discovering The Platinum Searcher but not installing it yet |
• Closing statements and thank yous from the hosts |
**Erik St. Martin:** We are back, it is episode \#25 of GoTime. Today's sponsors are Minio and Backtrace. On the panel today we have myself, Erik St. Martin, we also have Carlisia Campos - say hello, Carlisia. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Hi, everybody! |
**Erik St. Martin:** And Brian is off doing some training and stuff, so Scott Mansfield from Netflix has joined us today as part of the panel. Say hello, Scott. |
**Scott Mansfield:** Hello Scott. \[laughter\] |
**Erik St. Martin:** You actually took that literally. That works. And our special guest today joining us on the panel is Peter Bourgon. Say hello, Peter. |
**Peter Bourgon:** Hello, and I am not special in any way. |
**Erik St. Martin:** You are special! Peter is like a staple in the Go community. You've been giving people advice on running Go in production longer than most people have known about Go. You spoke in 2014 on advice for running Go in production...? |
**Peter Bourgon:** Was that the first GopherCon, 2014? |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, that was the first GopherCon. |
**Peter Bourgon:** Yeah, that was us back then... Soundcloud days. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So you wanna give everybody a little background and backstory for anybody who's not familiar with you and the stuff you work on? |
**Peter Bourgon:** Sure. I came to Go after a relatively long career doing C++ actually, so I was one of the few people that actually tracked how Rob and the original crew thought people might come to Go. I was writing mostly network servers, I guess. I was working at the time in kind of a distributed search space, and... |
I tried to think of an algorithm that would really benefit from concurrency, so I thought "I know, I'll implement naive Quicksort, and I think I gave each partition task its own goroutine, and I got really annoyed that it was actually slower than doing it all in a single goroutine. Has anyone on the panel ever tried so... |
**Erik St. Martin:** I'm trying to think of some of the original ones... See, this is where I start to fall under your same memory problem - I vaguely remember some stuff, but what was it? I know there's some things with my own misunderstanding of the language that kind of fell flat, but I don't know whether implementi... |
**Peter Bourgon:** I struggled with the concurrency stuff for a little while; my pet project at the time was this synthesizer thing which never really got anywhere, but I started off by sending individual float32s down the channel. That doesn't work. You need to buffer those up. |
Anyway, so I dug in and managed to introduce it at my next job in a small capacity, and became even more interested and started building a lot of typical things out, like a proxy... I think my first project that stuck around was this key/value store. I guess everyone either does that, or a web router; one of the two th... |
\[03:57\] And then I joined Soundcloud, where I was able to do it full-time, and there were a couple of people already working in Go at Soundcloud, actually. They formed the original Berlin Go users group back in late 2011, which was - if my memory serves, and it doesn't - pre-1.0, so that was back in the R59 days... D... |
**Erik St. Martin:** I remember those... I remember makefiles. |
**Peter Bourgon:** Oh yeah. |
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