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**Erik St. Martin:** And our special guest today is the queen of containers, Jessie Frazelle. How are you? |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Good, how about you? |
**Erik St. Martin:** Doing great! So we were out last week and we are back; we've got some good news before we get started. Today we're gonna talk to Jessie about all things containers, working on open source projects and any other fun topics that we come up with along the way. Before we get started we have two excitin... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Oh my gosh, yeah! |
**Erik St. Martin:** Do you wanna tell everybody a little bit about that, Carlisia? |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Sure. So I've been open to this possibility for a while now, and I will be joining the fine folks at Fastly next week; next Tuesday will be my first day there, and I'll be in San Francisco for my own boring week, and I'll be working remote from San Diego. I'm super excited... You should definitel... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That's great, this is great news. |
**Erik St. Martin:** We're excited for you. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** It's such a good team, I love all of them. |
**Erik St. Martin:** And no more Ruby. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** No more Ruby, just Go. APIs and network stuff. |
**Erik St. Martin:** The second piece of news is not only are we not kicked off, but we have sponsors. We actually have two sponsors for this episode. Linode, who will be doing all of our hosting for the Changelog and Go Time CMS' that are being worked on and we've talked about before, and also Equinox. We'll talk a li... |
Jessie, you also have a new job, right? |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Yeah, so I started two weeks ago at Google, but I really have only done one week of orientation and then I went to a conference, so it's sort of surreal. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** But business as usual for you, right? A week of work, a week of conferences... |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Yeah. I mean, I've submitted a few pull requests, so there was that. I think I need to update them... But yeah, business as usual. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That's awesome, congratulations. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So you're getting to work on Kubernetes, or...? |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Yeah, I'll be working on Kubernetes. I don't know specifically what yet. Before, I had previously made a PR to add seccomp to Kubernetes, and then I made a pull request to also clean up some Docker files and then Go Lint a few things, so hopefully that's good. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I want to put a word in and say congratulations, Jess. |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Thanks. |
**Erik St. Martin:** That's awesome. Everybody seems to be going to work for Google now. I keep seeing everybody joining Google. |
**Jessie Frazelle:** I mean, it's pretty nice. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Are you working with Kelsey and everybody, too? |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Yeah, Kelsey and them are all there, and Francesc - it's all super-cool people teams, and even in my first week I had multiple people emailing me who I had maybe only seen their names on like a kernel mailing list. I'm like, "Wow, you're really cool." So they just have a ton of really cool people, ... |
**Erik St. Martin:** A little star struck? |
**Jessie Frazelle:** \[04:00\] Yeah. \[laughs\] |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Sarah Allen from Bridge Foundry also just joined Google. She's doing some mobile work and also using Go. |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Nice! |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That's awesome news. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Yeah. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So first you started out on Docker... You were there for a few years, right? Were you on the founding team? How long were you with Docker? |
**Jessie Frazelle:** I had contributed before joining, but I think I was there almost a year and a half, or something. Or a little over a year and a half. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Definitely one of the most well-known members of the Docker team. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Yeah, almost the public face of Docker, definitely. We should talk about how hard it is to be the OSS maintainer for such a large project. |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Yeah, it's definitely painful, and I actually missed it after leaving, which I never thought would happen. But it is super hard to be the person giving people bad news all the time and then taking people's crap when they're frustrated because stuff's not working - which totally makes sense, and I g... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I wonder if you have opinions on how things could be better for maintainers on such a large project. I'm sure you have opinions. |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Yeah, I have a lot of crazy opinions. One of the most interesting things I think is if the maintainers from Huawei that helped us, they're located in China, I think, but it almost seems like there's a lost-in-translation type of... The fact that they don't insinuate that we're being mean, or someth... |
**Erik St. Martin:** I think a lot of people, whenever you're upset about something, you're naturally going to read the other person's response as an attack, right? I think that's the hardest thing, to take a step back and look at it objectively and not use your own current mood as your means of interpreting what someb... |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Totally. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, so tons of work. I don't envy you. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I can't even imagine. It's like juggling cats that are already juggling chainsaws. \[laughter\] Everything's sharp and everything has claws. |
**Erik St. Martin:** I submitted a pull request two weeks ago to Docker, and I think there was like 80 or something pull requests then; now it's well over 100, like 120 pull requests. |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Oh gosh, they must be anxious right now. Whenever we got to 100 or over 100, it's like "We need to merge things or close things..." It gets scary. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So that was kind of your point... Yeah, I saw that post - I think you posted it on Twitter earlier, where somebody was like "My condolences, you're now an open source maintainer." |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Yeah. |
**Erik St. Martin:** He was talking about finding that comfortable line where you know you can't close everything... So for Docker it's 100? |
**Jessie Frazelle:** Well, usually it stays around 75 or so, but once it hits over 100 it makes almost everybody kind of... That three digits, it's rough. But issues-wise, I think that we honestly gave up. It's not that we don't care about issues, but there's no way that's ever gonna go to some reasonable number. |
**Erik St. Martin:** No, and once it gets so big, people can't even keep up with the fact that they're submitting duplicate issues, because you can't find a similar issue. |
**Jessie Frazelle:** \[07:57\] Yeah. We were even fortunate to have someone who is so active in the project from the community itself; I swear, we all joked that he's like a human database of Docker issues. I swear, he really just knows them all, and he would be like "This one's a throwback to this other old one that's... |
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