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• The role of passion and interest in driving success in a field |
• The need for micro-successes and recognition along the way to build motivation and love for a particular skill or activity |
• Shifting mindset from frustration to excitement when faced with problems or challenges |
• The importance of building skills and knowledge gradually |
• The need to start small and celebrate tiny wins |
• The non-linear curve of measuring success |
• The value of learning from failure and imperfection |
• The power of passion and communication in teaching others |
• The distinction between conveying information and evoking emotions or feelings |
• The speaker's goal is to communicate technical concepts to a non-technical audience |
• The challenge of explaining distributed systems programming in a way that's relatable to developers |
• The importance of speaking in a language that resonates with one's audience, making complex topics more accessible |
• The concept of being a "10x developer" and the desire to raise the group's productivity by 10% |
• Discussion on testing in Go and the speaker's experience with testing frameworks and their limitations |
• The importance of pragmatism in software development, rather than adhering to dogma or rigid philosophies. |
• The need for testing, but not necessarily following specific methodologies like TDD (Test-Driven Development). |
• The value of writing tests as a way to ensure code correctness and facilitate refactoring. |
• The idea that different developers will have different approaches to testing, and that's okay. |
• Criticism of overly prescriptive testing methods or philosophies, such as the "red-green-refactor" approach. |
• Discussion on past self vs current self in development |
• Benefits of testing, including refactoring and reducing risk |
• Importance of writing tests for applications vs libraries |
• Example of Kubernetes as a good model for application-level testing |
• Challenges of finding relevant examples or documentation for testing applications |
• Commentary on prioritizing personal career goals over company loyalty |
• Implementing a custom standard library on top of the original Go library |
• Using a monorepo for all Go projects, with 100+ engineers contributing |
• Tooling around the monorepo to manage dependencies and reduce integration time |
• GTA (Grand Test Auto) tool to isolate testing to specific changes |
• Managing merge conflicts in the monorepo |
• Discussion of pros and cons of using a monorepo |
• Using Docker for builds and releases |
• Notifying on build failures, but not on every single build |
• Discussing performance issues with large Go codebases |
• Comparing Visual Studio Code to Vim for Go development |
• Introducing #FreeSoftwareFriday, a segment highlighting open-source projects |
• Praising PfSense, an open-source router and firewall |
• Sharing experiences and benefits of using Ansible for deployment scripts |
• Announcing Ben Johnson's blog series on Go's standard library |
• Community needs and importance of a specific place |
• Upcoming episode with Aaron Schlesinger on design patterns |
• End of show due to time constraints |
**Erik St. Martin:** We are back for another episode of Go Time. This is episode number 17. Today on the show we have myself, Erik St. Martin, Brian Ketelsen is also here... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Hello! |
**Erik St. Martin:** And Carlisia Campos... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Hi! |
**Erik St. Martin:** And today as our special guest, the man who needs very little introduction - everybody knows him from both the Go and Ruby world - Bryan Lyles. |
**Bryan Liles:** Hi, how are you doing? |
**Erik St. Martin:** So today we're gonna talk about monorepos, mentoring, movement building and anywhere this conversation goes, because you've been around the tech scene, in the public eye for quite some time and you have many interesting things that we can talk about -- wherever the conversation takes us. Do you wan... |
**Bryan Liles:** Yeah. I'm Bryan, and who am I? Well, I actually have the great pleasure of being able to say that I've been in tech for 20 years. I've only had tech jobs, mostly in the cloud industry or what we call the cloud industry. I actually started off in ISP land, then moved to server land, then to security lan... |
Also, what I like to do is I like to make sure that tech is fun and inviting for everyone. I've worked in a lot of places and I've seen a lot of things, and I just like to go out and say that, "Hey, you know what? It doesn't really matter who you are, you can do this!" I worked with a lot of people, and throughout the ... |
**Erik St. Martin:** It's interesting that you say that; I was actually just having a conversation with a friend that's town-visiting, and he drives truck and he's been interested in tech, but he feels like he's not cut out for it, like he just doesn't have the natural ability to do that. We actually probably had a hal... |
**Bryan Liles:** No, no. And really what it comes down to is how you learn. I had a little bit of a boost... My father was in the military and he got to see things that normal people wouldn't see. One day, he came home with computer books. They were C program language; I was 11 or 12. He said, "You should learn this." |
I put a lot of time into it. My first language was C, my second language was 6502 Assembler, and my third 8080 Assembler. And that's weird. Who would ever do that? But what I see is that it's all about context. What I'm doing right now is thinking of ways to teach people machine learning just as a beginner thing. One o... |
**Erik St. Martin:** \[03:47\] I think though too that a little bit of "There's so much to know..." When you're first coming into the field, you feel like because you can't grasp all of those things, that you're not cut out to do it. I think over time you start to embrace the unknown. As developers, we're presented wit... |
People who are trying to get into the field and break into it, they start trying to do something and they feel that because they can't figure it out, that they're just not cut out for it, and they wait for that moment that they know everything they think they need to know to do the job. |
**Bryan Liles:** Well, I look at it like Double Dutch. Have you ever double dutched before? It's really hard, actually, if you look at it. There's two ropes, they're moving in two different directions, and you always see the person who's getting ready to go next; they're always rocking back and forth, rocking back and ... |
I solved problems that I've heard afterwards from PhD statisticians "You shouldn't have been able to do that without that knowledge." What I've learned from that is you have to be pretty naive in the way that you think about yourself. There's nothing you can't do. I live that life. I could go out and I could beat Usain... |
It doesn't work for everything, but for computer things, it allows you to at least get the confidence to go out and figure out what you need to do, rather than be overwhelmed with all the complexities. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I read a book two years ago called Guitar Zero, about a PhD guy who had zero musical talent and just no aptitude for music, couldn't tap his foot to a beat. He took a sabbatical and decided as a learning project to write a paper about whether it was possible for someone with absolutely no musical ta... |
I think in the computer world, when you start off with nothing and you say, "I'm gonna become a programmer" that's great, because it's easy to make a Hello World app, but we have so many peripheral things that we have to know and learn to make real-world applications. I think that might be the hard part for people real... |
**Bryan Liles:** I agree with that. One of the problems that a lot of people who use methods to teach programming is we use programming as a means to an end, and that's actually not it. Programming is a tool - it doesn't matter what language it is. What you are trying to do is solve something. Right now, this is a proj... |
What we try to do whenever... I've seen some of the curriculums from these boot camps and other programs where they're just teaching, "This is a variable. In a web browser, this is how you make this happen." Even if you go down to Go, we can say "This is a goroutine", but we don't ever tell people the mindset or what i... |
And do you notice what I'm saying? It's all the same things as just teaching, but really what I'm trying to do is paint the happy path for everyone, so they can understand what it feels like to succeed. People want to succeed, so they'll fight harder to get there. |
**Erik St. Martin:** \[07:53\] I think there's a lot of stigma in it too, because we're constantly comparing ourselves to the rest of the world. A highly curated list of the best that the world has to offer, so it's easy to feel like you'll never get there, but there's also kind of being comfortable in your own skin an... |
I often try to get into electronics projects. I know nothing about electrical engineering or electronics engineering, but I just kind of explore away, make mistakes and learn along the way and that's okay. Like you said, people don't know how to figure out what was a success; that they have acquired some knowledge. Eve... |
When you first get into the field, there's just too much to know. |
**Bryan Liles:** Yeah. And you said that you don't have to measure yourself against anyone else - I have a problem with that. I measure myself against myself. When I'm doing okay, I'm exactly one Bryan; then when I'm doing a little bit less, I'm maybe nine-tenths of a Bryan. Hopefully, the measure of Bryan actually inc... |
I had a lot of distractions, but what I learned to do is realize, "Who's gonna get you there? Bryan's gonna get you there, not that person I'm comparing myself to." So I just stopped comparing myself to other people. And it helps your ego whenever there is Jeff Deans out there; when I read his papers... You know what? ... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I really like this conversation, because talking about Bryans in the third person just makes me feel strange. \[laughter\] |
**Erik St. Martin:** That's a conversation that I can't have. I can't talk about Bryans in the third person. |
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