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**Brian Ketelsen:** 55, when we belong to AARP. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So another five episodes. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Yeah. |
**Erik St. Martin:** On the show today we have myself, Erik St. Martin, Carlisia Pinto is also here... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Hi! You so mispronounced my name, but I love you, it's okay. \[laughter\] |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, we're moving fast here, sorry. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** At least he didn't do the trained monkey thing where he says "Say hello, Carlisia. Say hello, Brian." Yes, Erik, we're trained monkeys. |
**Erik St. Martin:** In that case, say hello, Brian. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Oh... You're going to hell. \[laughs\] Hi, Erik! |
**Erik St. Martin:** And our guest for today is actually Kris Nova. Hi, Kris. |
**Kris Nova:** Hi! |
**Erik St. Martin:** Do you wanna give everybody a little bit of a background of who you are and some of the stuff that you're working on? |
**Kris Nova:** Sure, yeah. So I am really into Go, the Go programming language. I work a lot in [Kubernetes](https://kubernetes.io/) and in the container space. I'm constantly coming up with little open source projects in my spare time, and I work on the Azure team at Microsoft, and we're working on bringing Kubernetes... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** You just answered my first question, which is "What's the proper way to say [Azure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Azure)?" |
**Kris Nova:** I say Azure because I'm really into mineral collecting and my favorite mineral is azurite, so it just kind of like was a no-brainer for me. But I've heard Azure in the wild quite a bit. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I would say Azure. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, I actually have the same problem trying to figure that out, and I think Adam Stacoviak the producer might have corrected me during a conversation we had... And I think it's actually based on Eastern countries versus Western countries. I think in the U.K. they say Azure, or something like that... |
**Kris Nova:** I've definitely heard both, but I just go with Azure... And that's what I think most people on my team say. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I would always use the "juh" sound; the question is whether we would accent the first syllable or the second one. You say Azure (accent on the first syllable) and you work at Microsoft, so we're rolling with that. It's done. |
**Kris Nova:** Alright! |
**Erik St. Martin:** It's official. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Sorry, I cannot change it. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I'm gonna call Scott Guthrie and let him know that that's how this is from now on. \[laughter\] |
**Erik St. Martin:** You've got him on speed dial. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Done and done! You're right, I should send him a text. Calling is rude. |
**Erik St. Martin:** \[laughs\] So let's talk about a couple of the projects, too. The most recent that came out was [Draft](https://github.com/Azure/draft); we talked about that either last episode or the one before, and that's ridiculously cool. Did you happen to work on that specific project? |
**Kris Nova:** We've been working on it for a while before we sort of announced it, and I've been involved with the team; I work fairly closely with them. I'm actually on like a neighboring team, but the way we do things is everybody -- all the individual contributors kind of work together. So I've contributed to the p... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** \[04:04\] So that's a no? \[laughter\] I'm just messing with you, Kris. I'm feisty today... Could you tell? |
**Kris Nova:** Yeah... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Okay, good. It's gonna be a good show, I feel it. You were mostly behind [Kops](https://github.com/kubernetes/kops) though, right? |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Kris, have you finished your sentence? You were just suddenly interrupted... |
**Kris Nova:** No, it's fine. So I worked out a lot in Kops; I helped to bring the private topology in Amazon to Kops... That was something I coded a lot end of last year, and now I'm one of the maintainers. My involvement now is pretty much I do a lot of code reviews and I help manage the project on sort of a high lev... |
I'm not contributing every day, like I used to be several months ago... But hopefully, I would like to change that, as I've been going through the process of getting Kubernetes up and running on Azure. I'm kind of missing a lot of these old paradigms that we had when I was working on Amazon, and I really would like in ... |
So that's something that I'm gonna start coding here as soon as I get some free time, probably in the next couple of weeks or so... So I'm excited about it. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Here's a question - for those of us who don't have a ton of Azure experience, how does Azure compare feature-wise to AWS? Are you finding that you couldn't still get everything you need done? Is it roughly analogous? |
**Kris Nova:** I would say so. Actually, I kind of like it more, because of the way that we handle our resource groups. What a resource group is is it allows you to give an ID to a set of arbitrary resources in Azure, and you can group on them that way. You just tag everything with a unique name and it doesn't matter i... |
I can get a cluster up and running with acs-engine in one or two commands, and it's exactly what I need and I'm working fine. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Oh, that's awesome. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, it's one of those things that I keep meaning to play with as well. In the past five years it's just been kind of like an explosion of different cloud providers, and it's just so hard to get time... You don't really wanna move your infrastructure too often; that's painful. But it's cool though... |
**Kris Nova:** Yeah, I was gonna say that's in my mind one of the big wins for Kubernetes, which is once you get all your infrastructure and all your applications bundled up into the Kubernetes way of doing things, you kind of don't really care about the cloud anymore, or at least that's the idea. |
There might be subtle nuances, but I've had a ton of personal apps and a ton of projects that I used to run on Amazon that as soon as I had \[unintelligible 00:07:17.03\] up and running in Azure it's like "Now I'm just rocking it in Azure, and life's good!" |
**Erik St. Martin:** Are you self-hosting? Like a Kubernetes inside Kubernetes? |
**Kris Nova:** That's something that I think we're gonna see in the near future probably. |
**Erik St. Martin:** That's one of those things that keeps getting on my list, since I've seen it on -- I know [Tectonic](https://coreos.com/tectonic/) does that too, but since I've seen it done, it's like "Oh, man... I really wanna do that...", just manage the Kubernetes components inside Kubernetes, too. |
**Kris Nova:** Yeah, and that's what's beautiful about it - in order to get a control plane up and running you just need to have these bare minimum set of components that are already running in containers. It's a good model. |
**Erik St. Martin:** \[08:02\] So do you wanna talk maybe a little bit about what Kops is, for anybody who's not familiar with the project? |
**Kris Nova:** Sure. I guess there's a lot of -- I don't wanna say controversy, but a lot of people kind of put Kops mentally into different spaces, so I'll kind of answer what it is for me. Basically, it's sort of what is the layer below Kubernetes. It'll solve "I have no resources in the cloud, whether that be Azure ... |
It's a deployment tool, but more importantly, it's also an after-market management tool. When you do go through the exercise of creating resources - again, whether these are IP addresses, network interfaces, VNets, VMs - you can store a concept of them, and then if you need to scale them or change them or update them o... |
I think it's sort of introduces this new paradigm of "I need infrastructure and I'm gonna probably wanna change it later as my use cases grow and evolve and expand", and with Kops I can do that through one friendly command line tool which ultimately becomes an API that you can trust. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** So how does `kops` differ in scope from `kubeadm`. |
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