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• VSCode plugin for Go development |
• Personal shoutouts to contributors, including Ramya and Glenn Lewis |
**Erik St. Martin:** Welcome back, everybody! I know it's been a couple of weeks, between the storms and everything... First Houston where our studio is, and then here in Tampa where Brian and I are, and the studio getting moved... But we're getting back on track and we've got a fun show planned today. |
Today's episode number is 58, and on the show today is myself, Erik St. Martin, Brian Ketelsen... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Hello! |
**Erik St. Martin:** And Carlisia Pinto... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** No storms in California... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Right?! Maybe I should reconsider that West Coast move. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Yeah! |
**Erik St. Martin:** And our special guest for today is Dmitri Shurya-- I knew I was gonna butcher that... Dmitri Shuryal-- why am I...? See, when I'm trying to say it fast, now I can't say it. |
**Dmitri Shuralyov:** Yeah, you had it before... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Dmitri Shuralyov. \[laughs\] You try to get that excitement up and say it fast, yeah... So Dmitri Shuralyov. |
**Dmitri Shuralyov:** Yeah. Hello, everyone! |
**Erik St. Martin:** Better known by his Twitter handle, @shurcooL. |
**Dmitri Shuralyov:** Yeah, I'm shurcooL on GitHub, Twitter, and basically everywhere. It's great to be finally here. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, so for anybody who may not be familiar with you and the work that you do, can you just kind give a brief rundown about who you are, what you do, and your history in the Go community? |
**Dmitri Shuralyov:** Sure, absolutely. As you said, most people probably know me by shurcooL, that's what I use as my username everywhere. I'm a software engineer. I used Go since 2013 or so, so it's been four years now. It's no secret, I'm a big fan of Go, I really enjoy using it. |
These days I kind of do something slightly unusual - I work full-time on open source Go code... And maybe it would make sense for me to kind of go a little bit into my background, how I started; that would kind of explain how I got here. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Yes! |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Please do. |
**Dmitri Shuralyov:** Alright, so I got into programming pretty early on, I think around 13 or 14. Basically, as soon as I discovered that you could actually make video games, not just play them, you could do that by writing code - that got me really hooked. I kind of quickly became very interested; I started to learn ... |
I wanted to make video games for a long time, pretty much up until I got to my masters. I was doing my final project there; this was a huge project in C++, and I was working on it for many months. There was a lot of pressure, there were a lot of deadlines, and I had to do a lot of things very quickly, and I felt a lot ... |
So I was using Visual Studio, and for C++ it didn't have great refactoring tools, and I was just like doing all these things -- like, if I wanted to rename a variable or a function, I would have to change it in a CPP file and in a header file as well. |
\[04:06\] If I were to move something, it would be a lot of manual steps, and that kind of frustration just made me really want to work on the tools that would make my job easier, or the jobs of all the programmers out there... So that got me interested more on the developing tools side. |
Sometime after that I felt so motivated to do that, and I had all these ideas and I wanted to try them out, so I started working on this experimental project called [Conception](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNJ7HqlV55k). I really wanted to try some crazy ideas, like -- I was thinking "Why is it that source code is t... |
What happened after that is that the project got a lot of visibility and publicity, and it kind of helped me get my first job in San Francisco, which was a place that I really wanted to end up or go to to work sometime. I'm from Toronto, and San Francisco -- it's always been a dream to go and work there, because I knew... |
I ended up getting a job, so I ended up working first at Triggit. It was a startup where we did real-time bidding and advertising, things like that; this was a company that was just getting into using Go, so one of the reasons they hired me was because I was good with C++ and Go. I thought this is a great place for me ... |
After that I worked at another company, [Sourcegraph](https://github.com/sourcegraph). That one, you may have heard of it. We were building tools for developers, and it's kind of famous in the Go community because of doing the live streaming for [GopherCon](https://www.gophercon.com/), and so on. This was a very differ... |
In the course of working in San Francisco for those three years, I was kind of always saving up towards this future dream of being able to just work on open source full-time. That was my dream of what I wanted to try next... Because it's one thing when you have your weekends, maybe an hour or two on weekdays to contrib... |
Because I became such a big fan of working with Go, I wanted to basically do more of that. So this actually happened, and I ended up starting this -- beginning of this year, end of last year, and I kind of transitioned; I left my job there and I came back to Toronto, and started doing this thing of working full-time on... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** That is fantastic! |
**Brian Ketelsen:** It is. It's really awesome. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I was going to ask you if you are being self-funded, or funded by a company... But it sounds like you're being self-funded, right? |
**Dmitri Shuralyov:** \[07:54\] I am self-funded, yes. It's basically my savings that I was working on saving towards this goal, and that's kind of what's funding this year. Of course, as I earn some money and add to that, I can continue to do this a bit more, but right now I don't have a concrete idea about next year;... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** And you have a ton of experience, so I am assuming the break that you're taking to work on the open source projects that you want to work on is not so you can acquire more skills, so I'm wondering what your end game is. Are you trying to just take a mental break and work on the projects you want ... |
**Dmitri Shuralyov:** Absolutely, yeah. I definitely have an endgame, and it's more of a, you know, intermediate, one step at a time kind of plan, rather than a complete vision for where I wanna be. But essentially, I can say that I'm just building or I'm working on the things that I really want to exist that don't rea... |
I'm just kind of filling my own desires of some tooling, or some things in the Go ecosystem that I think will be awesome to have, but they don't necessarily exist or they're not finished. So I just basically work on making the things that I wanna see happen. That is the main motivation, and of course, I wanna maintain ... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Awesome. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That is really cool. I think we need to go back and talk about Conception for a little bit, because that stuff was out there... Waaay out there! Tell us, since this is a podcast and we can't see it, tell us what Conception was and what you were trying to accomplish. |
**Dmitri Shuralyov:** Absolutely. So the original project was actually started in C++, and back then I was really into IDE's, and I wanted them to become a little bit more visual, and also I wanted them to kind of help you more with the refactoring. |
Again, when I started, C++ was the language that I had in mind as what I wanted to use, and I just thought that there are all these opportunities to make it easier to develop in C++, but essentially what happened is that as I started to work on the project, I kind of discovered Go. That's somewhere at the beginning of ... |
So when I tried Go, I found the _os/exec_ package and I was just really, really impressed with what I saw there, so then I started to use Go for more things. Very quickly, Conception ended up being -- it was supposed to be, at least, an IDE for working on Go code, so it stepped away from C++. |
But the way to describe it -- and it's definitely best to see... There's a five-minute video that I made that describes basically everything I've done in those one-and-a-half years (in five minutes). So think of it as a 2D canvas; a really large, maybe infinitely-sized canvas that you have a viewport into, and on this ... |
\[12:24\] The idea was that everything was alive, and as you'd make a change - change the code or change a connection between the widgets, it would update everything automatically; there'd be no having to press buttons to make that happen. |
As a result, you could kind of create things and just keep working, and whenever you had a question about the problem you were working on and you wanted to get some visibility into it, hopefully there was a widget that could help you get that answer, or if not, you could create it. Well, at least I was creating them at... |
That's kind of how it went, and given that it was an experimental project, one of the biggest benefits for me or the learnings that I've done was to gain understanding for why things are done the way there are in so many ways, and why seemingly bad or outdated practices, like using text files, that you'd think "Well, t... |
So a lot of it was learning about the strengths of some of the ways that we use compilers, code editors and so on, in ways that are actually really good. Armed with that knowledge, the next things that I could do would be obviously better. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** It was absolutely mind-blowing for me when I first saw the [demos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNJ7HqlV55k), so congratulations on thinking outside the box and working through different concepts and ideas for code editing, because it really was just amazing to see that the first time. |
**Dmitri Shuralyov:** Thanks a lot, I appreciate it. That's kind of what I was hoping to, just try to create something that would be really cool and that would make a lot of sense when you see it. It's not easy, but the things that do work well, it's always great to see it. If I can inspire people, that's an awesome th... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** The good news is I think of two things when I think of your name. The first is Conception and how awesome that is, and the second is "Isn't that the guy that put packages in gists in GitHub?" |
**Dmitri Shuralyov:** \[laughs\] I knew that that was gonna come up. I can't ever escape that, I guess. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** No, you can't. |
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