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**Carlisia Thompson:** At least lately... Everything! \[laughter\] |
**Ashley McNamara:** At least lately - [Kubernetes](https://kubernetes.io/) is definitely on my list. Microservices in general, I wish I knew a lot more than I do. The good news is that community is awesome, so if I don't know something - which often times I don't - I always know somebody who does. There are always awe... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** You don't ask dumb questions... |
**Ashley McNamara:** I super do... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Your questions aren't dumb. There are no dumb questions. |
**Ashley McNamara:** I don't ask dumb questions. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** You gotta understand that when you ask me a question, I just turn around and ask Erik and give you the answer. |
**Ashley McNamara:** Oh great, okay... So I'm gonna skip the middleman. See you, Brian... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** No, I like being the middleman. I like feeling important. |
**Ashley McNamara:** Okay, killing two birds with one stone then... It's what I do. |
**Erik St. Martin:** I don't think there's dumb questions though either, because really if you know the answer, it easy; if you don't, it can be impossible, right? |
**Ashley McNamara:** Right. |
**Erik St. Martin:** It's hard... You may feel dumb because it seems like a trivial thing, but if you've never used it, how would you know, right? |
**Ashley McNamara:** Yes. |
**Erik St. Martin:** If you think about basic life like that... If you saw a weed eater, and you've never seen one before, it's gonna be a foreign object, like "How do you start this thing? What do you use it for?" |
**Brian Ketelsen:** A weed eater? |
**Erik St. Martin:** I picked a random, inanimate object. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That is random, dude! |
**Erik St. Martin:** \[laughs\] It's probably because people were out there mowing the lawn earlier... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Oh, that makes sense. You saw the livestream of the hedges behind my house and you thought "Somebody needs to trim that damn thing." |
**Ashley McNamara:** We didn't wanna say it, but this is your intervention... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Thank you. |
**Erik St. Martin:** That's my way of insinuating that Brian doesn't know how to use one. \[laughter\] |
**Ashley McNamara:** Erik, I don't know if you can explain it... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** The shade is rough on this show. So tell me, Ashley, how did you come across all of the awesome stuff that you put on your [learning to program](https://github.com/ashleymcnamara/learn_to_code) wikis? Because I was looking through that -- I don't know, it was about two months ago when I was working ... |
**Ashley McNamara:** \[07:46\] I think it's because I don't advertise is as much as I maybe should. I started it because I went to a bootcamp to learn Python. That's sort of how I got into programming to begin with. I was contributing docs to OpenStack, and I wanted to contribute more, so I started to learn Python and ... |
So I found this bootcamp and I went to this bootcamp, and it was terrible. They weren't teaching real-world software development. They weren't. Contributing to open source was irrelevant to them. Basically, every question I asked was "You don't need to know that...", but I needed to know all of those things. So I decid... |
**Erik St. Martin:** I love his stuff. |
**Ashley McNamara:** I love his stuff too, he's so great. And I sent him an email and he said, "Why don't you just come over? I'll teach you." \[laughter\] And I learned more at Zed's house than I learned in three months at this bootcamp. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That's so awesome. |
**Ashley McNamara:** And I wanted to make sure that I helped other people in my situation. You don't need to drop $15,000 to learn to code. You are going to need in-person help, but there are plenty of people that mentor. All you have to do is ask, and people are so afraid to ask... |
So I wanted to put together this resource where people have access at a glance to - at sort of a glance; it's huge - a free resource where you can learn on your own. Now I'm working on putting together a mentor program as well, where we can pair junior developers with seasoned developers and get some real world experie... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That's so cool. |
**Ashley McNamara:** ...so that these people aren't alone. |
**Erik St. Martin:** I think the other side of it too - and having a mentor is important here - is similar to what we were just talking about, where you feel like "I wish I knew all these things better and I don't know them enough." There's things that I've learned with people that kind of are in my circle - trying to ... |
We don't set out immediately knowing how to solve a problem. I think we've just all grown comfortable in the struggle, or sometimes even grow to enjoy it, trying to figure out how this thing works... |
**Ashley McNamara:** Right... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** \[laughs\] |
**Erik St. Martin:** So when you come in, I think it can be demotivating, because you're just like, "Oh, I'm just not cut out... I just can't get this to work. I don't understand it." |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Yeah, that's a great point. Sorry, did I cut you off? Sorry, not sorry... \[laughter\] |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Yeah, shut up, Erik. Carlisia needs to talk now. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** No, I think the essence of programming is being comfortable with not knowing, and having your own strategies for putting the pieces of the puzzle together. For me sometimes it's study from the bottom and going up; sometimes it's starting from the outside, going in... There's all sorts of strategi... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Enjoy the journey... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Yeah... Because mostly we don't know shit... We're just figuring stuff out. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** This is a family show! |
**Carlisia Thompson:** \[12:06\] Oh, that's not family-friendly? |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Family show, Carlisia! |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I'm gonna be bleeped. |
**Erik St. Martin:** We miss Ashley's alternate words and phrases list... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I thought that was family-friendly, sorry... \[laughter\] |
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