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**Ashley McNamara:** You know what? Here's family-friendly: you be YOU! Don't let anybody tell you how to live your life. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** We're just gonna be bleeped. |
**Ashley McNamara:** Don't bleep us, it's so rude... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Yeah, you can't censor me. |
**Ashley McNamara:** Yeah, don't do that. I had to teach myself to break problems down into micro-problems. That's also something that you need to learn as a developer... That you're better off learning with a mentor than you are at a school. I read so many books like "How to think like a programmer"... None of those b... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Well, I think we all do that instinctively, but we don't know we're doing it, and it's really hard for someone to step back and say, "Okay, you really just need to find the tiniest piece of this and solve that, and then find the next tiny piece and solve that", because that's what we all do. Even if... |
Some people do it instinctively, some people have to be taught, but it's how we're all solving the problems. Nobody goes off in a weekend and writes [InfluxDB](https://www.influxdata.com/). |
**Ashley McNamara:** Of course not, but I've had so many people come to me and say, "I wanna build this thing. Where do I start?" They don't know where to start in the lifecycle, right? They're thinking of this thing that they want, but they have no idea where to start building it. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, I guess there's a degree of that, because it's almost like, if you're ever done freelance work or consulting work where you deal with people who want you to build something for them and they're not familiar with tech, they don't know it's possible, so they don't really know where to begin wit... |
So I think there's a degree of that when you start... You don't even know that these things are possible, so where do you look? So yeah, I guess there's a lot of that into thinking like a programmer. I do it with math, too. People think I can do a lot of math in my head, and it's like, you just break it down into simpl... |
I think the other side is confidence, too. A friend of mine just got his bachelor's degree in CompSci, and he's like "I don't know when I'll be ready to write code." It's like, "You've been ready... Since day one." It's just that confidence level of "When will I know enough to be able to do this?" and that's kind of wh... |
You think about it... We do this all the time. If you started your day knowing 100% how you were gonna do what your task was for that day, and this was every day of your life, it would be boring... So boring! We like solving new problems, so we kind of want the uncharted territory. |
**Ashley McNamara:** No, absolutely! That's one of the reasons why I went to [Pivotal](https://pivotal.io/). It's really exciting to be the dumb kid in class again. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** If you're not in the pool with lots of bigger fish, you're not learning. |
**Ashley McNamara:** So true! |
**Carlisia Thompson:** So what are you doing at Pivotal? Tell us... |
**Ashley McNamara:** What I didn't know about Pivotal is that they have a really passionate set of Go developers. Pivotal started out as a Ruby on Rails shop, and most of CF(Cloud Foundry) was Ruby. I had no idea until I tweeted that I was looking for a job and I got a message from one of the Go developers at Pivotal..... |
\[16:09\] So I started doing some research, and I noticed that Pivotal has about 35 repos that are Go. It's like, this is weird that nobody knows about this. Is it because they are making an enterprise product and people don't care about that as much...? Or what's the deal? |
So I started interviewing and I realized that they just didn't have a lot of people to be the face in that community, to evangelize that. So that's what I'm doing at Pivotal - making the Go community aware of what we have to offer. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** First of all, CF is Cloud Foundry, right? |
**Ashley McNamara:** Correct, yes. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Maybe you wanna tell us what that even is... But what is the important stuff that's working? What type of developers will benefit from what Pivotal has to offer? |
**Ashley McNamara:** So you're gonna have to cut me a little bit of slack on this, because it's day four for me at Pivotal... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Consider it done! Totally. |
**Ashley McNamara:** But many of the engineers are using a scripting language. They're writing small tools, like lightweight CLIs that might have once been done in Ruby or Bash, and it's especially handy when you want to, say, write a little diagnostic test on a Mac and then run it on an arbitrary Linux container witho... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** There's a significant amount of Cloud Foundry that's been completely rewritten in Go. Their router, Diego - that's a huge, huge piece of Cloud Foundry that's written in Go, and they had a nice blog post about that a year or two ago, on just how much Go brought to the game in that rewrite. |
**Ashley McNamara:** Yeah, Go made it possible for them to run Diego on Linux and Windows, and that helped a lot with Pivotal's .NET story. |
**Erik St. Martin:** I think Onsi works at Pivotal too, who created Ginkgo and Gomega, which is like a BDD framework |
**Ashley McNamara:** He does... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That's cool. |
**Ashley McNamara:** Yeah, so a lot of great Gophers at Pivotal, who I didn't even know until recently, and I feel sort of bad about that. I feel like everyone should know about them. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Gophers are taking over. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I kind of feel like they're a little quiet in the Go world though, in general... |
**Ashley McNamara:** Possibly... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** They're not making enough noise, so they had to hire somebody to make more noise... \[laughter\] |
**Ashley McNamara:** Well, hello... Here I am. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** It's Ashley. It's the Ashley party. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Talking about Ashley party... What is your talk at GopherCon going to be about? |
**Ashley McNamara:** Oh my gosh... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I'm so curious! |
**Ashley McNamara:** I wavered on this a couple of times, so right now it says [My journey to Go](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sBBTFXOq44), and I've talked to a couple of people about it; it feels pretentious in a way, like "Who cares about my specific journey?", but at the same time, "Could it be helpful for peopl... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I wanna go back to that and give you my opinion, but do you have an alternative to that? Were you thinking about another talk? |
**Ashley McNamara:** I have no idea... I would love to hear your opinion. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** My opinion on the original talk, your journey to go - I think it can be extremely useful, because Go is growing tremendously, and there's always new people coming into the language... And when people are coming into a new language, of course they wanna see steps that people who are practicing hav... |
\[20:04\] So it can be inspiring, it can be informative... Definitely very helpful. And even for veterans, it's a chance for us to look back and see "Hey, what's that person's journey, compared to my journey?" I mean, I like talks like that. |
**Ashley McNamara:** I do too, but... |
**Erik St. Martin:** I mirror Carlisia's opinion. I think that you draw a lot of inspiration from it. A lot of people coming in - we talked about confidence, and things... Some of the favorite topics that we've had on this show are when people start giving their back-story and people realize that their journey is very ... |
**Ashley McNamara:** You're absolutely right. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That's the first time anybody has ever said that on this show. \[laughter\] |
**Carlisia Thompson:** That Erik is right? \[laughs\] |
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