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**Adam Sontag:** Yeah. You know, it never occurred to me until now that we never put dates on the yayQuery website, so it kind of seems kind of evergreen... |
**Alex Sexton:** It's evergreen until you listen to like 3 seconds of it and we're like "jQuery 1.4.111, commit 93870 came out today..." |
**Rebecca Murphey:** It seems so important... |
**Alex Sexton:** \[03:52\] Yeah. I mean... It was, at the time. Alright, I think we're gonna start off with not a traditional segment, but we kind of wanna talk about things that didn't exist in the web or JavaScript the last time we were all on a podcast together - which is quite a bit, which is kind of cool in how fa... |
**Paul Irish:** Sure, there was a JavaScript framework that was introduced in this time period that some of you might be familiar with, called ReactJS. |
**Rebecca Murphey:** I hear they wanna put XML in our JavaScript? |
**Paul Irish:** Yeah, exactly. |
**Adam Sontag:** Hold on! I'm going to need to angrily put down my Margarita to listen to this... \[laughter\] |
**Paul Irish:** So the interesting thing here was ReactJS actually launched at JSConf in Florida... Were all of us there at that one? |
**Adam Sontag:** I think we were actually -- |
**Alex Sexton:** I intro'd the talk. |
**Paul Irish:** Oh, damn! |
**Rebecca Murphey:** Didn't we do yayQuery reunion? |
**Adam Sontag:** We were already doing yayQuery reunions when React came out. \[laughter\] |
**Paul Irish:** Yeah, and I remember from that the vibe that day at the conference... Like, "Facebook just showed this thing where they wanna put XML in JS. That is crazy! This framework... Why are they doing this? Why don't they just work with one of the existing frameworks? This is so against the community, or someth... |
**Alex Sexton:** There were two tweets from close friends of the yayQuery podcast... I think Rick Waldron and Ben Alman both had tweets that were pretty much like "Facebook is belittling all best practices that have ever existed in the face of..." - just a so very serious tweet... But to be fair, I think Tom Occhino - ... |
I think they were trying to focus on the autobindy-type stuff, because that was really hip, and they were glossing over the fact that they had added this ES4 feature of JSX back into the language, and didn't necessarily -- like on-click handlers, and all that stuff. |
**Rebecca Murphey:** And Pete Hunt talked about that at TXJS 2015, about the mistakes of that rollout. I remember there was probably alcohol involved, because it was the end of the day and it was like the big reveal, but I just remember the room being appalled at this thing that they were seeing... And yeah, it was a l... |
**Paul Irish:** Yeah, there was a good at least six months where everyone had a really bad opinion of it, and it was just like "Ugh... Don't like it!" |
**Rebecca Murphey:** But Dojo though, guys... Dojo is totally still... \[laughter\] |
**Alex Sexton:** I often think about our arguments back in the day, Rebecca, of rolling your own large application with jQuery or using Dojo. I think Paul one time said something along the lines of like "Alex, I think you won that argument in that people agreed with you and went that direction", but Rebecca was right a... |
**Paul Irish:** In that you were right in the argument of rolling your own is just more feasible and kind of easier... |
**Alex Sexton:** \[08:01\] But Rebecca was right in the sense that it's actually better... |
**Rebecca Murphey:** Rebecca was right in that Rebecca was at bizarre voice for another three years after Alex rolled his own... |
**Alex Sexton:** Oh yeah, for sure. |
**Rebecca Murphey:** ...and left us. \[laughter\] |
**Alex Sexton:** Moving on... \[laughter\] You're at Indeed now, correct Rebecca? |
**Rebecca Murphey:** That's right. |
**Alex Sexton:** Do you guys use types? Do you use Flow or Typescript or anything? |
**Rebecca Murphey:** Oh god, do I have to answer this? |
**Alex Sexton:** Well, I mean, that's the next thing that I was gonna talk about, because FlowType - another Facebook thing, but also Typescript... |
**Rebecca Murphey:** The actual answer is yes, but we mostly use Google Closure... But we're fixing that. |
**Alex Sexton:** The comments? |
**Rebecca Murphey:** Yeah. Google Closure itself, Google Closure the library, and then the Closure Compiler. |
**Alex Sexton:** Oh, I see. |
**Paul Irish:** Oh, you use the Closure library? |
**Rebecca Murphey:** Yeah... But we have some teams that are -- people really like the strong typing of that, so we have some teams that are moving away from Closure because no one uses it except Google (no offense), but moving to things like Typescript and Flow; we haven't really settled down on one, but people like t... |
**Alex Sexton:** Yeah, that's a really interesting segue, because Closure had type annotations in comments in order to do way better building way back in the day. I added them to YepNope and I would double minify YepNope with Closure, and then with uglify it would come out smaller... |
**Rebecca Murphey:** And it would take ten minutes... |
**Alex Sexton:** For sure... I mean, it was small enough. Since then, we've had FlowType and Typescript come up. FlowType's written in OCaml, so if you ever wanna tribute to that, brush up on your OCaml. But I guess I'm interested in knowing what the uptick on types across the regular JavaScript community is. It seems ... |
**Paul Irish:** Yeah, at least, I'll say -- \[laughter\] I work on a few projects... I work on both the Chrome DevTools and on Lighthouse, which is kind of auditing performance tool. DevTools is written -- we use the Closure Compiler, so everything has the annotations. When the entire project is annotated, that compila... |
And it's interesting, because at least on our team, we haven't come to a conclusion about it. It's like, "Well, the Typescript is nice, because it catches different things, and there is better in-editor tooling support, but the compile step is annoying... Whereas the immediate reload or rerun of just JavaScript is so a... |
**Adam Sontag:** I've overheard people say things to that effect, which is like "Are you in Typescript?" "No, I'm going as far as ES6 modules." It feels like if I wanna be going down the path of what JavaScript is going down, maybe I might avoid that. |
**Rebecca Murphey:** And I think that what we've seen is that the types help, but they don't make you write good JavaScript. And so you can have a Closure Compiler comment that says "These 40 arguments are these types", but you still are passing in 40 arguments. I think it can seem like kind of a safety net for people ... |
**Alex Sexton:** \[12:04\] Yeah. It's interesting, because I think part of the standards bodies are kind of maybe taking -- like, normally, when people do their own things and add to, like -- CoffeeScript happened, and then I think a lot of ES6 was at least sped up, and some syntax like Feathers were inspired by Coffee... |
In that same vein, ES5 - we did an episode whenever ES5 landed, and we talked about the new array prototype functions and things like that, and how you'd have to use polyfills to get it all to work. Since then, a few versions of JavaScript have been released, and it's kind of evergreen now, and it's hard... I guess Jav... |
**Rebecca Murphey:** ...except Brian LaRue. |
**Alex Sexton:** Well, sure. |
**Paul Irish:** Yeah, we don't use Babel... I think part of it is because -- yeah, in the DevTools case, we only run in Chrome, so we make sure that what we're writing today and lands essentially in Canary will work in Chrome stable; that's what we have to operate under. But yeah, compiling the source has some ergonomi... |
**Alex Sexton:** Cool. And one of the news segments on the show that we did was talk about when Node was released at JSConf EU... |
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