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**Jerod Santo:** Do not use the Surface Pro for podcasting... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And you could follow them, too. You can be handsfree, following them, like you'd mentioned with the "follow Avdi" mode. You could just watch them open files, explain the path of where the class is, where it ties to the module, whatever it might be... You can really go deep with them and follow them ... |
**Jerod Santo:** That'd be cool. |
**Jessica Kerr:** Yeah, that'd be sweet. |
**Jerod Santo:** How many people can connect to this thing? Because we could just ditch the video indirection and just have a whole bunch of people following you directly. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Just the code. Just in VS Code. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. Is there a limit -- I mean, it probably doesn't scale very well. |
**Jessica Kerr:** It's a little beta... It doesn't work perfectly yet with 2. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. So this is not a good idea... \[laughs\] |
**Jessica Kerr:** Sometimes it just works... By all means, try it. If you have a Discord server where you talk about this stuff, you can stream it, and also give them the link, so they can try to join... But if not, just watch the stream. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. Is it just a URL? You just point your VS Code at this? How does it work on a logistical level? |
**Jessica Kerr:** Yeah, you pass a link. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's so cool. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, worst-case -- I mean, Microsoft is committed to this idea of VS Code, obviously. They've won developers, as you said, Jessica... So I think that even if it's not perfect right now, they need people using the feature in these ways, to hit the bottlenecks and the bugs and the gotchas to get that... |
**Jessica Kerr:** Yeah. One of the things you get - if you do your work in a Docker container, then you know that Docker container works. You know that every tool that you need installed is installed, and it's installed in a way that's documented in the Dockerfile... And randomly, sometimes you'll rebuild the container... |
**Jerod Santo:** I'm now remembering why I don't use Dockerfile, besides curmudgeon, which is also there... But actually, Docker for Mac is super-slow, for some reason... And so now I'm gonna have to switch OSes if I wanna get this going. |
**Jessica Kerr:** \[40:07\] Yeah, Docker desktop for Mac used to be the best, but I think now it's better on Windows. It's not perfect, sometimes... I mean, one thing that we rely on in our programs, that we think -- we just keep assuming the file system is solid; the file system is not solid in a Docker container, run... |
**Jerod Santo:** Not solid. |
**Jessica Kerr:** And the answer is not restart your container, it's not restart Docker, it's restart Windows. We're back to that. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Great. |
**Jerod Santo:** We're back to restarting Windows... |
**Jessica Kerr:** I keep forgetting, and I get really frustrated. But npm install, with the number of files, when it's downloading thousands and thousands of files into that directory - oh, that can kill it... |
**Jerod Santo:** That is no bueno. |
**Jessica Kerr:** Yeah, it's not perfect. When you have that extension of yourself set up, that is more efficient. It is faster. And for your own work - I mean, I'm not gonna tell you you ought to use Docker. Anyone else ought to, and you ought to once in a while, just so you make sure it still works. |
**Break:** \[41:06\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Do you wanna talk about DevOps and Honeycomb or anything like that? |
**Jessica Kerr:** Oh, okay. So Adam, you were talking earlier about brains, and Brain Science, and some of the stuff I've been reading lately about ecological and inactive-something - as people, as animals, we learn about the world in order to act. Acting and learning are entwined. We constantly have to do something, a... |
We have to learn in order to choose useful actions, both as animals and as people. And I've noticed for years that in code, learning and changing are like the same thing. If you do want to learn a codebase, you need to refactor it, or tweak something and see that change the output, or add a printf to see if that's real... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Jessica Kerr:** You implement a test, you see something green. You refactor it, you can live with the code. And then you write another test and you see something red. \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** In reality, most of us skip the refactor step. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Jessica Kerr:** Well, that's because it was fine the first time, because it is in our head. Come back the next day, and then you'll wanna refactor. |
**Jerod Santo:** No doubt. \[laughs\] |
**Jessica Kerr:** You know, now that we have continuous delivery, and now that we have systems composed of a zillion different services with actual useful documentation that people spend more time on than they did writing the code, the level of reuse as the company - that's a thing. Anyway. Now that we have things like... |
\[44:11\] So the first thing I do -- so Avdi and I have this toy app, which whenever we sit down to work on it, and it's been a week (because it's always been a week, because it's the weekend), the first thing I do is push some change to production, to show that I can still change the world in this way. |
Last weekend -- we haven't implemented any real features yet. It's pretty Hello, World at this point... But darn it, we have system tests running, and darn it, I integrated Honeycomb for observability. And we haven't done anything in Honeycomb yet. All I did was installed their gem, tweak their configuration so that I ... |
Then now when I deploy the site, I can go and look at the graphs in Honeycomb. And whenever I hit the site, I can see something change in the world. I see that graph bump, and then I can trace down too and see what made it take so long, which - it doesn't do anything yet, so it doesn't take long... Well, unless Heroku ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. First request. |
**Jessica Kerr:** Yeah, but we're probably not seeing that yet, because I don't think it -- anyway, I can see an effect on the world even just by clicking on my site now... And I can see whether other people are clicking on my site. So now, when my app starts being useful someday, I'll be able to see that and look at i... |
**Jerod Santo:** Hm, I like the way you put that. It's like real-world -- well, it's testing in production. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It sure is... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] |
**Jessica Kerr:** Yeah. And we need testing at all these layers... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. It's additive. |
**Jessica Kerr:** We need testing both locally, and in CI - which is consistent - and in production. |
**Jerod Santo:** You're still not all the way to the end result necessarily, right? I think a lot of the "Move fast and break things" attitude, even if you're testing and having your observability in production, it's like not seeing the logical, or sometimes illogical conclusion of your changes as they manifest in the ... |
**Jessica Kerr:** Yeah, because you can meet requirements; you can make it do what they told you to make it do, and that still be totally useless and bad! |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. Backwards. |
**Jessica Kerr:** So if you don't test in production, you're not testing the system in its environment, you're not testing whether the system works. You're only testing whether it does what they told you to make it do. |
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