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And I think we looked at usage numbers a couple of days later internally, and we were like "Oh wow, we're creating a lot of value here right away." Just immediate uptake inside of GitHub. And I think it is the primary means through which people do kind of explore code now, and that just happened overnight, effectively,... |
I was on an interview a few days ago with a candidate, and we'd just announced it. So it was the day of the GA announce, and he was talking about how he uses GitHub as kind of the center of his learning journey. It's always been -- he's like "GitHub and Stack Overflow are my two tools when it comes to learning." So he'... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** This is very much an on-ramp then to comfortability with Codespaces. |
**Jerod Santo:** Life in the cloud. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Life in the cloud, yeah. I feel like you will see that transition at some point. You'll be in some environment, you'll wanna make a change to it, or you'll just kind of wanna execute it... So you'll be like "How do I move into compute?" We wanna make that transition seamless for you. So you kind of ... |
In other cases it's just this read tool. I would imagine the dominant use case of .dev is gonna be primarily for reading and browsing. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Gotcha. When I saw Nat's tweet on this and I connected the dots, I was like, "Okay, the timing of your blog post and the announcement of your team transitioning to use Codespaces, and this dot, and we're a team organization on GitHub, and we're like "Hey, we've got Codespaces." So I was like "This i... |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Yeah, there's been a little bit of confusion-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Some confusion there... |
**Cory Wilkerson:** \[44:03\] ...around that. But it's been fine, for the most part. I feel like -- we didn't quite give it a name, and I thought people would probably call it .dev, and we're seeing people largely call it .dev... But at some point it will fold into what I think is like a comprehensive Codespaces experi... |
**Jerod Santo:** So let's say I'm on the Codespaces product and I have my customizations in there somehow... And we haven't talked about how you do that, or is that team-level; hopefully it's personal, hopefully it's probably both, with like a CSS cascade... |
**Cory Wilkerson:** It's a bit of both, yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. If this was tighter-integrated with that, like with my extensions -- I'm looking at this, it's a stock VS Code; it's even missing some language support, because you probably just put the top ten languages in there... Would I bring my extensions into this? Would I bring my VS Code config into this... |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Yes, I think .dev today supports Setting Sync, for instance... And I'm pretty sure -- and I can't say this with 100% confidence; I should go look into this right now... At least on the Codespaces side you codify in devcontainer.json, you capture your extensions that you want available in that enviro... |
And then again, the Dotfiles repository - a lot of people don't know what that is, so I'll just clarify a little bit... So the dotfiles repository is literally called Dotfiles. It's inside of your GitHub account. So if you go to github.com/corywilkerson, for instance, and you create a Dotfiles repo there, then any repo... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Which is great, because you took over a paradigm that everyone was already using, and I think people have had dotfiles, repos for pretty much ever... Either sharing them, or sharing them between themselves with different machines, or just being a share of natural open source tendencies. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** That's one thing I love about GitHub, is that oftentimes there is that little bit of magic. Somewhere along the way someone says "You know, people already have Dotfiles repositories. Why don't we just give them an option to just pull that directly into the environment." And you're like "Wow, that is... |
**Jerod Santo:** So this is interesting... I'm on github.dev, I'm looking at the fzf repo... I installed the Vim Emulation Extension into that VS Code instance. Then I visit another repo in another tab, and I hit dot, go to github.dev, and that extension is installed in this instance as well. Is this like a local stora... |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Yeah, that's actually at this point using browser storage. So that's all attached to browser storage. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's cool. It's a nice step. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Yeah, there's a lot about that. And it's a relatively new product, so we're gonna be listening to customers and iterating etc. But that's the experience that we kind of launched with at this point. Most of what you see in that environment, github.dev - we call it browser compute. So everything that ... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[48:05\] Well, it's a new product/feature, but it's in the running for probably my favorite new feature in many, many years. This is just spectacular. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Yeah, it's part of my daily workflow now. It's harder for me to -- I don't know the last time I've cloned anything to my machine. I just don't do that anymore. I hop into a repository, to either .dev, to look at the contents, or into a Codespace to actually change a thing. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** And in fact, I find myself engaged with many more repositories now, just because I have that access. I don't have to go through this additional step; I grab a URL, clone it down, open it in VS Code locally, all that kind of stuff is just gone for me now. |
Interesting to see at a macro level what kind of impact this will have on productivity, exploration, contributions in OSS, how is this gonna meaningfully change. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, the in-browser editor has definitely helped with the drive-by contributions... When there's a typo, or there's like a thing that's missing and you can just edit it right there in your browser... It took you away from that friction, again, of doing the clone, all the things you've just described..... |
**Cory Wilkerson:** I mean, you couldn't be more right about this. I can tell you -- you know, I'm Mr. Manager inside of GitHub; I've been in management for a while, and at one point I was a very good programmer, I like to think, but maybe not so much anymore... And it's nice to be able to hop into a thing and make a f... |
So there's all this kind of like -- the tech is super-cool, the experience is super-cool, the thing works really well, and you're like "Wow, this is incredible. We're finally here as an industry. We've finally made it. This moment... That's great." But then it's the other story, of like "So what does that mean? Now tha... |
**Jerod Santo:** So here's a couple of grab-back questions about Codespaces, kind of the dev ex... If I'm actually using it, how does this work, what does this feel like? The first one is test data. So when you're developing, you like to have something that is like a snapshot, or looks something like what it probably l... |
**Cory Wilkerson:** I can tell you the GitHub engineers today - so the .com codebase - we have a number of seed scripts that we use to kind of see the database ahead of time... And those are executed in our bootstrap processes, and those are done in pre-builds today. So by the time you provision an environment today, y... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Almost like you said you have access to infinite laptops. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Exactly. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I think that's a different change in paradigm. It's like infinite branches at once, versus a single branch. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** It is. And that is a thing the industry is just -- like, it takes a second. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It does. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** \[51:58\] You're so used to working in this one model, and you just have this mental that that's how we do development. And then at some point on your Codespaces journey or whatever, you're gonna find a moment where you're like "Actually, the real model that I want is this task-centric model." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** This pre-build though - I'm thinking about it from a Changelog.com perspective. We back up our database to S3 four or five times a day, Jerod? Or on the hour? What's the timeframe again? |
**Jerod Santo:** It's either hourly or every three hours, something like that. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So I'll often literally go and hand-pull that from S3 down to local, and I'll run a script that we have in our repo. I'm wondering, in the Codespaces environment, if we have pre-builds, that we couldn't codify that into, say, a GitHub Action, or the process of creating that pre-build; go grab that l... |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Yeah, you would even need a pre-build necessarily. I mean, pre-builds will make it faster at the end of the day, but you can do that without pre-builds, too. It's just a container, and there's lifecycle events in that container that we fire. One is called the post-create command, and in post-create,... |
So GitHub does this - we have a base image that we use, that we specify in our devcontainer.json file, which is build ahead of time, and gives you most of the GitHub environment. And then with pre-builds and a few other tools we take it just the last mile... But 95% of this is built for us on a nightly basis and ready ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** No, please go there. I think the next thing I wanna ask you to do is just dream with us then. So if this is today, where will tomorrow be? Where will Codespaces take teams that now have this capability today? That's unheard of. And the compute -- a one-line compute change from (based upon your blog ... |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Yeah, that's a really incredible experience. I've put in that quote -- I think there's a caption in the blog post that says something like "One config change and bypass the global supply chain bottleneck." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I love that. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** It's totally true. You can now just say "Well, we want the 16 cores, or 32 cores", or whatever in config, and upgrade everyone's machine if you want, assuming that you've got the approval to do so within your organization. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right, sure. It's possible. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Yes, right. Be responsible. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You're describing the possibility, not the adherence to standards or internal organization opportunities. |
**Cory Wilkerson:** Exactly, right. This is just a thing that could be done. |
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