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[1927.66 --> 1933.44] file type plugins this idea of it's very easy to create a mapping in vim and if you create that mapping |
[1933.44 --> 1938.94] in a file type plugin you can say okay well this mapping will only be applied to vim if you're editing |
[1938.94 --> 1944.02] a javascript file which is really neat but it kind of forces vim's hand a little bit because when i think |
[1944.02 --> 1948.50] back to textmate which i don't know how many people are using textmate today but i know that |
[1948.50 --> 1954.90] textmate got a lot of things right and when i think sublime came out and when vs code came out they said |
[1954.90 --> 1960.04] okay well we support textmate grammars or textmate themes or whatever it just it's a way of having a |
[1960.04 --> 1965.22] new editor just suddenly look like it's got lots of plugins already written for it right one of the |
[1965.22 --> 1969.86] things i remember from my textmate days is that it has this idea of scopes i think that was the |
[1969.86 --> 1975.80] terminology it used where it's very much not just looking at the current file but looking at the |
[1975.80 --> 1980.72] cursor position within the file and you could have some sort of a some sort of a command that would |
[1980.72 --> 1986.98] run and it would do something differently if it was in a javascript scope versus an html scope i might |
[1986.98 --> 1991.68] be misremembering the way that that feature worked but that was kind of how how i remember it and it |
[1991.68 --> 1996.76] meant that you could have you know a mapping that did one thing if you were in the html part of a file |
[1996.76 --> 2001.08] and a different thing if you were in the javascript part of a file and i think the way that vim is so |
[2001.08 --> 2007.08] focused on like file type plugins slightly just makes that awkward to do i'm sure it's not impossible |
[2007.08 --> 2014.38] but it doesn't feel like vim is aligned well for files that contain more than one language what |
[2014.38 --> 2019.82] frustrates you julia the configuration like i don't understand a lot of the stuff in my vim config |
[2019.82 --> 2025.58] you know like you have like n no remap like what is it like i kind of know what it means what's i mean |
[2025.58 --> 2032.82] like you're trying to i know it means you you're mapping like a um shortcut to something else like |
[2032.82 --> 2038.86] you like i might be like i have one that's like a leader in to like remove highlights if i've searched |
[2038.86 --> 2044.06] for something and it was highlighted and i want to unhighlight it right but um like i don't know what |
[2044.06 --> 2050.64] the no remap thing is about but i know that i see it all the time i definitely have it in my vim config |
[2050.64 --> 2054.82] and i definitely don't know what it means and specifically uh and like that's a little |
[2054.82 --> 2058.46] frustrating you know like it never really feels good when you have stuff on your computer that |
[2058.46 --> 2061.70] you use all the time where you don't know what it means anything else that frustrates you about it |
[2061.70 --> 2068.88] i think for a long time i didn't have paste working like vim didn't interfere with my system clipboard |
[2068.88 --> 2073.46] and i found that frustrating and then one day i figured out how to do it and it was like life |
[2073.46 --> 2077.96] changing and now it does and i'm just really happy um but i'm still literally surprised every time i can do |
[2077.96 --> 2082.68] that even though i've had it for years now it didn't work long enough that you were trained |
[2082.68 --> 2087.06] in to believe and it won't work so when it does it surprises you yeah oh i was going to say maybe |
[2087.06 --> 2091.34] one more thing i find frustrating actually which is that i think the default way vim is set up like |
[2091.34 --> 2095.86] whenever i use vim on not my computer it doesn't have my config and they're just like some things |
[2095.86 --> 2102.78] about vim's default like it doesn't do like indenting you know like if you're editing a function |
[2102.78 --> 2110.86] on a server which you shouldn't be but then you are or i am you know um and then like i entered |
[2110.86 --> 2115.00] new line and then it goes back to the beginning of line so like indenting it nicely stuff like that |
[2115.00 --> 2120.78] gary i'm pretty good at complaining so i'll limit myself to just one thing vim script to understand |
[2120.78 --> 2126.52] vim's relationship to its scripting language let me contrast with emacs emacs is more is almost like |
[2126.52 --> 2132.80] an operating system that happens to ship with an editor and long-term emacs users will effectively |
[2132.80 --> 2137.26] end up rewriting parts of that editor sometimes but it's still emacs because the layers underneath |
[2137.26 --> 2141.92] are still emacs so emacs lisp is a whole programming language it was designed to be a programming |
[2141.92 --> 2146.88] language vim is not like this at all vim was designed to be a text editor it had a configuration |
[2146.88 --> 2152.18] language that configuration language grew over time to acquire normal programming constructs and that is |
[2152.18 --> 2156.36] what we call vim script so it's a hodgepodge and it wasn't sort of designed all at once |
[2156.36 --> 2161.24] and it's i don't think it's controversial to say it's kind of a mess so that is the most |
[2161.24 --> 2166.64] frustrating part of vim for me and it also is one of the reasons that i avoid configuration when i can |
[2166.64 --> 2173.52] i have a very sort of mostly stock vim configuration despite 15 years and vim script is why |
[2173.52 --> 2180.58] suz shared two frustrations one social and one technical by far the most frustrating for me is |
[2180.58 --> 2185.82] again like it's outside the editor itself it's the community and the culture around vim can be very |
[2185.82 --> 2190.64] friendly i want to qualify that first right and there's a lot of people that are really enthusiastic |
[2190.64 --> 2196.12] and happy to help you but then there's also kind of the dark side in that i that i call it you know |
[2196.12 --> 2202.16] of the vim community which is that there can be a lot of dogma and some very bro-tastic culture you |
[2202.16 --> 2206.66] know it becomes like competitive it's like who knows the most amount of shortcuts who can customize this to |
[2206.66 --> 2212.10] be like the ultimate elite editor and and the dogma around you know like even just like fuzzy |
[2212.10 --> 2217.00] finding search tools you know the amount of people that have like piled on me because of |
[2217.00 --> 2220.86] because i use ctrl p and they think that that's too slow and i should be using these other things |
[2220.86 --> 2226.28] it's really frustrating it's it's like any other hobby that you see people get enthusiastic about |
[2226.28 --> 2232.04] sometimes they don't know how to sort of control those emotions or to understand that people come into |
[2232.04 --> 2237.92] that hobby or that code editor with completely different motivations to them and and to just maybe |
[2237.92 --> 2243.52] consider that there are those differences so i feel like vim doesn't do the best job at selling |
[2243.52 --> 2249.12] itself as it is we've talked about how you know it has a rep for having a a steep learning curve and |
[2249.12 --> 2254.30] um this just adds extra awkwardness around the tool to people getting started with it right like you |
[2254.30 --> 2257.84] almost don't want to say i'm starting with vim because you just know there's going to be a deluge of |
[2257.84 --> 2262.80] overwhelming unsolicited advice that is absolutely not helpful to people when they're getting started |
[2262.80 --> 2268.28] um and so that's one thing that disappoints me a little bit and i definitely don't feel |
[2268.28 --> 2274.32] like being on this vim episode is really interesting to me because i don't consider myself part of the |
[2274.32 --> 2279.00] community even though i've had really good interactions with people such as tim pope he's |
[2279.00 --> 2284.56] fantastic he's like written some of the most prolific vim plugins out there and he's he's great um |
[2284.56 --> 2288.66] i've had a really great experience working with him he's even poor requested one of my vim plugins and |
[2288.66 --> 2294.16] it's it's awesome but uh those experiences tend to be few and far between for me so but i did want to |
[2294.16 --> 2301.04] sort of give a call out to somebody who is really great at this when you are talking about vim itself |
[2301.04 --> 2305.62] when you're working with it i still you know my touch typing is still not perfect right um and so |
[2305.62 --> 2310.96] sometimes i'll just accidentally hit a key i didn't mean to and when you're typing as fast as you are |
[2310.96 --> 2316.34] you'll just see something very dramatic happen in vim you have absolutely no idea which key you hit and |
[2316.34 --> 2320.72] how to actually cancel that because if you don't know what you did you don't know how to rescue it |
[2320.72 --> 2325.40] so um sometimes it can be frustrating because all of a sudden it'll just kind of like it'll be like a |
[2325.40 --> 2330.30] record scratch moment for you when you're in the middle of flow and um just trying to get back to |
[2330.30 --> 2335.80] where you were is annoying i think that gets better with practice um but i think everyone's done that |
[2335.80 --> 2340.84] thing where you accidentally toggle caps lock if you haven't sort of remapped your caps lock key which is |
[2340.84 --> 2346.54] i'm sure why a lot of people do this you toggle caps lock you hit k because you're just trying to |
[2346.54 --> 2350.80] go up a line you're trying to move your cursor in the file up a line and then all of a sudden you |
[2350.80 --> 2356.90] have this the the whole screen goes blank and then you've accidentally hit like the jump to the man |
[2356.90 --> 2361.38] page for this specific you know thing right and usually you're just writing arbitrary code so there |
[2361.38 --> 2366.04] is no man page for the the word that your cursor is on and it starts yelling at you that it can't find |
[2366.04 --> 2371.10] it and you're just like i don't where is my code where did it go where did you take me give it back |
[2371.10 --> 2376.52] um and so there are some of those kind of jarring moments that happen sometimes um and i think that |
[2376.52 --> 2382.26] obviously they get less and less frequent but for me i still sometimes frustrate myself in that way |
[2382.26 --> 2386.00] you can really do a lot of damage with the efficiency of the program if that makes sense |
[2386.00 --> 2391.24] for me it's always accidentally getting into macro recording mode it's like i'm trying to hit tab |
[2391.24 --> 2395.48] q yeah i hit q on accident i'm like tabbing and i hit q a couple times and all of a sudden i'm |
[2395.48 --> 2399.28] recording things that i don't want to be recording i'm like uh how do i stop this yeah i've like |
[2399.28 --> 2405.04] recorded things for an entire half hour i swear sometimes so you hit q again to toggle it off and |
[2405.04 --> 2410.36] then you kind of go into a new buffer and you hit play to see what you were recording because it's |
[2410.36 --> 2413.92] quite amusing there are definitely times on my twitch stream where people like susie are recording |
[2413.92 --> 2419.94] right now because it's just like in the corner of my little status bar but yeah i think that tab versus |
[2419.94 --> 2424.62] q thing is very common too and it's exactly the same frustration right totally there you have it |
[2424.62 --> 2430.78] a few vim frustrations and of course the learning curve is a big one for many folks the question is |
[2430.78 --> 2436.04] should you learn vim today maybe you gave it a try once and got stuck should you give it another go |
[2436.04 --> 2442.26] gary shared some excellent reasons why that might just be the case i absolutely would recommend it i |
[2442.26 --> 2446.62] also would recommend people not to beat themselves up over it if they decide they don't like it like |
[2446.62 --> 2450.68] there's kind of this weird sort of you know you have to use the hard thing or you're not you're not |
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