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[761.78 --> 769.26] Well, I think that the main thing about Made for Home Assistant is that we don't have an API ourselves, |
[769.62 --> 769.78] right? |
[769.80 --> 771.66] Like we always integrate with the other products. |
[772.08 --> 778.42] I did consider like starting one or like having like at least some certification and more official certification. |
[778.42 --> 786.66] But we see that there's not much interest in it in a way that like, you know, manufacturers will come to us and be like, |
[786.96 --> 787.66] well, what's your API? |
[787.80 --> 788.30] We'll integrate. |
[788.90 --> 790.84] And I'm always like, no, that's not what we want. |
[790.90 --> 792.72] We want you to create an open API. |
[793.02 --> 794.14] We will integrate with it. |
[794.14 --> 797.62] But other projects should also be able to allow to be integrated with it. |
[798.08 --> 801.02] And then we see a lot of companies be like, ah, that's not in our interest. |
[801.38 --> 808.46] Or, you know, we were talking to Ring because, you know, they wanted to say like, hey, can we get like a partnership going? |
[808.92 --> 809.90] And then we looked at it. |
[810.02 --> 814.00] And the first step is sign NDA to make sure that you don't expose the APIs. |
[814.20 --> 814.46] Right. |
[814.46 --> 815.88] And like, we're open source. |
[816.02 --> 816.96] This is not going to happen. |
[817.06 --> 822.64] And the same thing happened to us with Sonos, who also was like, yeah, we want to keep it to partners only. |
[823.10 --> 825.08] It's like, ah, okay, that doesn't work. |
[825.42 --> 827.46] Oh, that's super frustrating to hear that kind of stuff. |
[827.52 --> 833.32] Because some of those companies you listed, you know, Ring and Sonos, they're big players in this space. |
[833.34 --> 839.16] And that's kind of frustrating to hear that they're not compatible with an open source ethos yet. |
[839.50 --> 840.76] Well, their partnerships are not. |
[840.88 --> 842.38] But I mean, we still integrate with them. |
[842.48 --> 842.68] Right. |
[842.68 --> 842.92] Right. |
[842.92 --> 848.64] It's just less official because they still have APIs and people have been able to figure out those APIs. |
[849.54 --> 851.30] And so we will still integrate with them. |
[851.60 --> 856.98] It's just, if you are a partner, they will make sure it stays working or they will give you a heads up so you can adjust. |
[857.74 --> 859.00] And that's something we don't have. |
[859.06 --> 859.24] Right. |
[859.28 --> 861.28] So we sometimes get caught off guard. |
[861.40 --> 863.98] Like some, some brand will change an API. |
[864.64 --> 865.70] Home Assistant stops working. |
[866.26 --> 869.10] We have to update our code, ship a hotfix, and it will work again. |
[869.10 --> 872.78] Which leads me nicely into my next question, which is about the velocity of change. |
[872.78 --> 875.92] Now, I've been using Home Assistant for a couple of years myself. |
[875.92 --> 879.58] So I've been through quite a few breaking config changes over that time. |
[880.32 --> 888.42] I feel like, and this is just anecdotal personal experience, that that experience has gotten better, that the pace of change hasn't decreased. |
[888.42 --> 894.94] But the amount of changes that break stuff, that has decreased significantly from my perspective. |
[894.94 --> 904.56] What things are you doing from, you know, a Home Assistant side to make that velocity of change more easy for people to handle? |
[904.56 --> 912.10] So the biggest change there, and it was actually, it started out with a policy change and then like it resulted also in code changes. |
[912.28 --> 913.88] But so there's this thing called config flow. |
[914.04 --> 916.30] So through the UI, you can set up an integration. |
[917.08 --> 921.34] And what we said is that this is going to be mandatory moving forward. |
[921.54 --> 928.98] So it used to be that you could like go into YAML and then, for example, let's say for your Philips U bridge, you would say this is the IP address. |
[928.98 --> 935.68] And then, well, Philips U is maybe a bad example because you would still have to press a button in the UI and it was storing some extra data. |
[935.84 --> 940.90] But for some things, you have to like, here's a username, password, and IP address of a device on my network. |
[941.34 --> 945.30] But then when the IP address would change, Home Assistant wouldn't work. |
[945.42 --> 952.16] And Home Assistant couldn't find the new IP address because you had it hardcoded in your configuration files and we're not changing your configuration files. |
[952.86 --> 957.08] And so those cases, we really had to handle through a UI. |
[957.08 --> 960.94] We had to like say, hey, this is a temporary IP address, but we still have an identifier. |
[961.36 --> 967.64] So if your Chromecast changes IP address, we can still find it and we will set it up again or your Shelly or whatever you have. |
[968.36 --> 980.30] And then we realized that, oh, actually, a lot of our breaking changes is because people are adding support to having to go from one device, support multiple devices or these kind of things. |
[980.42 --> 985.74] And so when we go for a config flow, Home Assistant is responsible for how it is written to disk. |
[985.74 --> 988.28] So Home Assistant knows exactly the configuration format. |
[989.06 --> 996.62] And if we have to change it because we are going to support multiple devices, we can actually migrate that data because we own how it is stored. |
[997.30 --> 1004.92] If it is a configuration file, and this is kind of silly, but we kind of programmed our way into like a corner we can't get out of. |
[1004.92 --> 1011.34] Because if you look at configuration.yaml, we have all these advanced structures to break up your configuration files. |
[1011.46 --> 1016.34] There's packages with includes and then include their name, include their list. |
[1016.50 --> 1018.36] And there's all these different types. |
[1018.52 --> 1026.24] And what that means is that Home Assistant cannot go update your configuration file anymore because it doesn't know where your configuration file is. |
[1026.24 --> 1029.36] We would have to reverse track all your includes. |
[1029.54 --> 1036.08] And then we need to find like a YAML writer that respects your comments and respects your indentations exactly how it was. |
[1036.72 --> 1038.32] And it's just, it's impossible. |
[1038.92 --> 1040.80] I think safe mode was a really good invention. |
[1041.16 --> 1043.02] That, well, not invention, idea, right? |
[1043.08 --> 1047.06] Where Home Assistant still starts and then just goes back to a safe mode. |
[1047.50 --> 1047.68] Yeah. |
[1047.80 --> 1051.44] So safe mode was really driven by the blue, right? |
[1051.44 --> 1055.72] So we had the blue in mind and we were like, okay, we're going to have a box. |
[1055.82 --> 1056.76] We're going to sell these people. |
[1056.98 --> 1061.60] Like it will actually allow more people to use Home Assistant than previously were not using Home Assistant. |
[1061.80 --> 1066.02] So how can we make sure that they can always boot and always have a UI? |
[1067.16 --> 1072.76] That shows you just how long it takes to develop a product because they were released a long time apart, those two things. |
[1072.90 --> 1073.66] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. |
[1073.66 --> 1076.42] I mean, it took us a year to make that case for the blue. |
[1076.42 --> 1084.64] So it's, I mean, a pandemic happened and like with other stuff, but yeah, it took us a year all in all to just get a case. |
[1084.96 --> 1088.22] So I hope our next product will not take that long. |
[1088.56 --> 1090.18] At least, I mean, we'll see. |
[1090.36 --> 1090.70] But yeah. |
[1092.42 --> 1093.72] Yeah, it is very tricky. |
[1093.86 --> 1094.06] It is. |
[1094.42 --> 1101.92] It's fascinating, though, how thinking about from a developer perspective, how to ship something for an end user, we got a feature like that. |
[1102.00 --> 1104.72] I think that's kind of telling how created that use case. |
[1104.72 --> 1107.32] So I'm curious, let's shift gears to the personal side. |
[1108.00 --> 1111.02] If you do have some self-hosted services, what are you running on your LAN? |
[1111.54 --> 1115.72] And roughly how much storage do you have on this set, quote unquote, LAN? |
[1115.90 --> 1125.50] So I run Unraid at home and I made a server that must have been like six, seven, eight years ago or something. |
[1125.84 --> 1127.22] Like now it's six years. |
[1127.30 --> 1128.32] It's getting really old. |
[1128.36 --> 1129.94] It's like a core i5 still. |
[1130.02 --> 1133.46] And I think it takes up way too much power compared to what it does. |
[1134.72 --> 1139.88] You know, I chose Unraid because this was during the beta phase of Unraid. |
[1140.02 --> 1141.74] So beta phase of Unraid 5. |
[1142.24 --> 1144.96] And Unraid 5 was where they introduced the Docker containers. |
[1146.14 --> 1152.54] So that was like almost kind of right away, I kind of shifted into like this perfect world of having all these containers at home. |
[1152.60 --> 1156.80] And so I'm actually still the maintainer of the Home Assistant core template for Unraid. |
[1157.02 --> 1157.46] Love that. |
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