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[578.56 --> 581.96] So now it's every three, three times a year, you know, new releases. |
[582.16 --> 587.18] Sure, it's a minor number, but we all know that in Kubernetes world, like the miners are |
[587.18 --> 588.38] basically majors, right? |
[588.44 --> 591.24] So, you know, 1.23 is around the corner right now. |
[591.72 --> 593.28] By the time this is published, it'll probably be out. |
[593.68 --> 600.52] And the interesting thing to me is that the original authors of Kubernetes, they never envisioned |
[600.52 --> 605.58] that Kubernetes would be used directly by application developers. |
[605.78 --> 607.14] That's fascinating to me, right? |
[607.14 --> 613.44] There's some tweet by Joe Beta where he said that they always viewed YAML as an implementation |
[613.44 --> 614.04] detail. |
[614.18 --> 618.28] It's like the assembly language or whatever, the API that you would talk to Kubernetes via, |
[618.38 --> 622.72] and there would always be something on top of it that would smooth over the rough edges |
[622.72 --> 626.92] and take care of a lot of that complexity and make all those decisions for the developers, |
[627.12 --> 627.84] for the engineers. |
[628.20 --> 629.70] But yeah, here we are, right? |
[629.70 --> 634.50] We are all wrangling YAML in order to use Kubernetes. |
[634.76 --> 641.28] So absolutely, when we train our customers in Kubernetes, our most popular workshop is |
[641.28 --> 645.52] this core Kubernetes workshop where it's like you just want to get your application developers |
[645.52 --> 647.50] up to speed on how to use Kubernetes. |
[647.90 --> 650.30] The complexity is just astounding. |
[650.30 --> 655.76] And you need all of your engineers to understand it if they're going to carry the pager, especially |
[655.76 --> 662.02] a smaller company where your application engineers need to be able to debug issues with their |
[662.02 --> 663.12] applications in the cluster. |
[663.44 --> 667.64] When things go sideways, they need far more knowledge than you would expect. |
[667.64 --> 673.70] So when companies come to you saying that, hey, Tamer and your awesome super orbital team, |
[673.88 --> 674.56] we need help. |
[674.80 --> 675.84] We really need help. |
[676.10 --> 677.52] What do they need help with? |
[677.64 --> 678.20] Is it training? |
[678.48 --> 680.20] Is it running stuff? |
[680.44 --> 681.30] What does that look like? |
[681.50 --> 685.68] We don't do, because of the nature of who we hire and how we're positioned, we don't like |
[685.68 --> 687.34] help with maintenance on clusters. |
[687.34 --> 691.82] We don't help with on-call or upgrading clusters and that kind of stuff, which it just doesn't |
[691.82 --> 693.82] make sense to engage with us for that kind of thing. |
[693.82 --> 700.24] But customers definitely come to us for training and they come to us, like I said, for the harder |
[700.24 --> 702.04] Kubernetes problems. |
[702.82 --> 706.56] Can you give us a few examples, like some hard Kubernetes problems that companies struggle |
[706.56 --> 708.04] with or teams struggle with? |
[708.18 --> 714.64] Yeah, we have a couple of clients who are attacking on-premise installations for their |
[714.64 --> 714.92] product. |
[715.00 --> 720.28] They have a product that they run, but they want to deliver it to other companies on-premise |
[720.28 --> 725.08] in the other companies, AWS accounts or even bare metal or whatever. |
[725.86 --> 732.52] And the interesting thing about Kubernetes is that it is becoming that ubiquitous platform. |
[732.96 --> 738.30] It is becoming that assumption that you can make that if I'm going to go on-premise, I want |
[738.30 --> 743.20] to target Kubernetes because that's going to hit the 80% of my potential customers. |
[743.20 --> 744.52] That's easily becoming the case. |
[744.52 --> 750.80] And going on-premise is very difficult, even with a substrate like Kubernetes to lean on, |
[750.88 --> 753.90] because often you get zero telemetry, right? |
[754.08 --> 758.24] You get no metrics, no logs, no hands on the keyboard. |
[758.38 --> 761.06] You can't kubectl exec into something and fix it. |
[761.26 --> 767.06] Usually with these engagements, it's with, or usually for our clients, their customers are |
[767.06 --> 773.08] highly regulated, highly secure companies that have very strong security postures. |
[773.08 --> 779.20] And so what our clients need is not only to believe that what they are going to be deploying |
[779.20 --> 785.86] into their customers' Kubernetes environments are well-engineered and using all of the best |
[785.86 --> 790.16] practices from Kubernetes' point of view, but often they also need a lot of custom code |
[790.16 --> 792.94] developed in order to do health checks. |
[793.32 --> 800.38] For one customer, we actually built a dashboard that their customers can go to and see the health |
[800.38 --> 804.60] of their application, but also the health of the underlying cluster, basically so that |
[804.60 --> 809.46] their customers can self-select into, should I file a ticket or is it actually a problem |
[809.46 --> 812.16] with our own cluster and we need to go to our own operations team? |
[812.34 --> 814.30] That kind of thing is fundamentally important. |
[814.72 --> 820.00] And when we were at Cloud Foundry, we have so much experience with the headaches of trying |
[820.00 --> 825.62] to ship on-premise that we just naturally, that's why we ended up with all these customers |
[825.62 --> 828.04] doing it, because we just had that experience already. |
[828.04 --> 834.54] Another fun example is we had a crypto client who wanted to integrate AWS Nitro Secure Enclaves |
[834.54 --> 835.68] with EKS. |
[836.46 --> 842.86] And the Nitro Enclave thing is a really interesting technology where you can run verified code |
[842.86 --> 849.52] in a highly secure hardware-based environment that has to be built into the chips on the actual |
[849.52 --> 851.18] machines that AWS gives you. |
[851.18 --> 855.92] And even AWS engineers cannot access the memory for that code. |
[856.04 --> 857.78] But using it is a huge pain. |
[857.94 --> 859.94] I mean, using it is incredibly difficult. |
[860.60 --> 865.86] And the code that runs inside this secure enclave cannot do things like network or anything. |
[866.14 --> 870.12] You can only communicate with it through this weird VSOC that happens at the kernel level. |
[870.12 --> 873.54] And so integrating that with EKS turned out to be very challenging. |
[873.92 --> 875.66] And so they brought us on board to help out with that. |
[876.22 --> 881.68] And as it turns out, we were, I think, maybe still the only people who have done that integration, |
[881.86 --> 886.56] the only people who have tied EKS and Nitro together so that you could launch a secure |
[886.56 --> 890.70] enclave from a pod and communicate with it directly from that pod. |
[890.70 --> 895.20] And we know that because we actually had to work with the AWS engineering team to get it done. |
[895.74 --> 896.52] And it was a lot of fun. |
[896.68 --> 898.02] And we got, you know, we blogged about it. |
[898.28 --> 900.40] And the engineer loved that work. |
[900.54 --> 904.28] It's part of the reason why we can attract such senior talent is because we get to work |
[904.28 --> 905.86] on the more interesting projects like that. |
[906.14 --> 906.26] Right. |
[906.42 --> 907.38] You've made so many things. |
[907.72 --> 910.50] And I'm going to ask one thing, which is very close to my heart. |
[910.66 --> 915.54] So in Cloud Foundry, we knew to use Bosch to manage Cloud Foundry. |
[915.74 --> 915.96] Yeah. |
[915.96 --> 920.34] Is there such a thing in Kubernetes where when you deploy Kubernetes on bare metal, |
[920.70 --> 921.62] what would you say? |
[921.76 --> 927.06] What, like, what should users or teams use for that management of Kubernetes on bare metal |
[927.06 --> 927.78] or on-prem? |
[928.02 --> 931.88] There's a variety of tools for deploying Kubernetes to bare metal installations. |
[932.28 --> 935.86] And that's not really the hard part with Kubernetes. |
[936.16 --> 939.06] In the cloud, there's managed Kubernetes and that solves all your problems. |
[939.18 --> 942.04] But that's really, that's not the problem with Kubernetes in complexity. |
[942.04 --> 946.12] In fact, getting a Kubernetes cluster up and running is fairly easy. |
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