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willtheorangeguy
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2021-Ship-It-Transcripts

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[1197.34 --> 1198.26] Here's the TLDR.
[1198.80 --> 1205.18] Fastly's Edge Cloud Network and modern approach to serverless computing allows you to deploy and run complex logic at the edge
[1205.18 --> 1209.16] with unparalleled security and blazing fast computational speed.
[1209.16 --> 1216.72] Scale instantly and globally, reduce origin load, get real-time observability, and get seamless integration with your existing tech stack.
[1217.08 --> 1220.96] Head to Fastly.com slash podcast to get Compute at Edge free for three months,
[1221.12 --> 1224.60] plus up to $100,000 a month in credit for an additional six months.
[1225.08 --> 1227.46] Once again, Fastly.com slash podcast.
[1227.56 --> 1229.56] Fastly.com slash podcast.
[1229.56 --> 1231.56] Fastly.com slash podcast.
[1231.56 --> 1233.56] Fastly.com slash podcast.
[1233.56 --> 1235.56] Fastly.com slash podcast.
[1235.56 --> 1237.56] Fastly.com slash podcast.
[1237.56 --> 1238.56] Fastly.com slash podcast.
[1238.56 --> 1253.70] So when it comes to the biggest obstacles, the biggest challenges to driving DevOps transformations or successful DevOps projects,
[1254.32 --> 1254.96] what are they?
[1255.06 --> 1256.82] What did you come across in your experience, Romano?
[1256.82 --> 1264.02] So one of the biggest obstacles that is out there is actually the middle management.
[1264.02 --> 1271.10] What you can see is you have a lot of companies which are organized in different units.
[1271.58 --> 1274.96] And these units, they have goals.
[1275.20 --> 1277.98] And of course, there is a head of this unit.
[1278.30 --> 1283.62] And he has built that unit up and he is chasing his goals.
[1284.36 --> 1291.00] But one of the problems that we usually see is that there is a lot of misalignment between these units,
[1291.00 --> 1293.62] or you can also call it silos.
[1293.62 --> 1298.16] So now with the HR transformation, you or with the DevOps transformation,
[1298.36 --> 1303.64] you are starting to align the people around the value stream.
[1304.14 --> 1306.28] And you bring people together.
[1306.86 --> 1315.76] And this means that some of these heads of these units, they are losing power.
[1315.76 --> 1318.56] And they know that.
[1318.76 --> 1319.60] They see that.
[1320.18 --> 1324.02] And this is something they don't want to have.
[1324.38 --> 1326.80] So they want to still be in charge.
[1326.90 --> 1328.36] They want to have their budget.
[1328.88 --> 1333.32] They want to say how things are done.
[1334.10 --> 1336.28] And that's a big challenge.
[1336.28 --> 1340.78] And I can also fully understand these people.
[1341.44 --> 1344.42] But sometimes they are completely in the way.
[1345.02 --> 1351.42] Or they are also attacking an HR transformation or a DevOps transformation.
[1351.86 --> 1357.48] Or that they are doing stuff, which makes it very difficult to bring that through.
[1358.06 --> 1361.46] And that's a big obstacle that I see.
[1361.46 --> 1366.68] And it is very important to bring them on board, to educate them,
[1367.00 --> 1373.30] and to also show them how their new job looks like in the future.
[1373.68 --> 1376.86] So how do you succeed with that, like bringing them on board?
[1377.16 --> 1378.36] How does that even look like?
[1378.68 --> 1385.44] So one of the things you need to analyze is what are the goals these peoples have.
[1385.44 --> 1391.56] And usually it's not their goals, it's the goals of their bosses.
[1391.96 --> 1394.26] And you need to change these goals.
[1394.90 --> 1399.18] So when we look at an HR transformation or a DevOps transformation,
[1399.76 --> 1403.60] it is very crucial that it comes from the top management.
[1404.36 --> 1410.92] And the top management has a clear vision and also clear guidance what they want to do
[1410.92 --> 1412.78] and in which direction they want to go.
[1412.78 --> 1416.76] And they need to change the goals of these people.
[1417.22 --> 1422.24] Only by doing that, you can change how these people are behaving.
[1422.98 --> 1423.58] Okay.
[1424.22 --> 1428.18] And what about the type of person that doesn't want to change?
[1428.52 --> 1429.22] What do you do then?
[1429.42 --> 1433.26] This is a very difficult case when you have that.
[1433.64 --> 1440.50] The only thing you can do in that case is try to educate, try to convince.
[1440.50 --> 1445.88] But if you can't, he potentially or she potentially needs to leave the company.
[1446.14 --> 1446.36] I see.
[1446.94 --> 1447.20] Okay.
[1447.82 --> 1453.00] So coming back to the agile transformation and the DevOps transformation that you mentioned about,
[1453.40 --> 1458.34] the first example that you gave us of what good looks like in practice
[1458.34 --> 1465.72] is when you connect the value that the team builds to the customer or customers they build it for
[1465.72 --> 1471.30] and have the customer not even verify, but make sure the value is what they expect it to be.
[1471.78 --> 1472.78] So that's what good looks like.
[1472.90 --> 1474.44] So is there more to it?
[1474.80 --> 1480.42] Or is this basically the core of what you're referring to when you say agile and DevOps transformation?
[1480.42 --> 1481.50] It's more.
[1481.66 --> 1488.50] One of the most important things that I always say is what you usually have is you have bright ideas.
[1489.04 --> 1490.24] The business has ideas.
[1490.48 --> 1492.80] The customer has bright ideas.
[1493.26 --> 1496.18] And usually you have a lot of these ideas.
[1496.80 --> 1501.74] And what you want to do is you want to transform these ideas into value.
[1501.96 --> 1504.44] Value for the customer, value for the company.
[1504.44 --> 1509.26] So behind an idea, there is always a hypothesis.
[1509.88 --> 1515.62] And you need to identify this hypothesis, which is behind this idea.
[1515.74 --> 1521.18] For example, a hypothesis can be when we bring this feature or this shiny new mobile app,
[1521.46 --> 1525.84] then we can have 10% more turnover.
[1526.74 --> 1529.64] So that could be the hypothesis behind that.
[1529.64 --> 1538.84] And now the important thing is to find out what is the minimal thing we need to do to prove this hypothesis.
[1539.94 --> 1547.38] And this is a very important thing to do because with that, you can reduce the batch sizes which you have.
[1547.72 --> 1554.48] So by analyzing what is the minimal thing, you identify the minimal viable product.
[1554.48 --> 1563.28] And you need to also identify what are the leading indicators which indicate us that we are on the right track
[1563.28 --> 1568.96] and that this hypothesis is true and we should invest more money into that.
[1569.90 --> 1579.66] And by doing that, you can reduce massively the batch size and also the amount of work which is going through your value stream.
[1580.26 --> 1583.08] And that's what you really need to do.
[1583.08 --> 1589.88] You need to do less, but you need to do the things which you are doing in the right way.
[1590.66 --> 1602.36] And by having these hypotheses and identifying them and also having an evaluation on is it the right thing which we are doing
[1602.36 --> 1612.76] and early also stop doing things, you can massively change the things you are doing and you can create more value for the cost.
[1612.76 --> 1619.82] The way I understand that is ship less, more often and check if it works.
[1620.34 --> 1620.48] True.
[1621.44 --> 1621.96] Absolutely.
[1621.96 --> 1622.90] That's the way I'll summarize it.
[1623.08 --> 1623.82] Yeah, perfect.
[1623.82 --> 1630.54] And in that case, you want to optimize the shipping cycle as much as you can.
[1630.72 --> 1633.36] If it takes a day, try to go for an hour.
[1633.70 --> 1635.60] And if it takes an hour, try to go in for a minute.
[1636.10 --> 1637.16] No, that doesn't work.
[1637.58 --> 1639.76] I don't think you can ship it like in a minute.
[1639.84 --> 1641.26] Maybe if you have a function, maybe.