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2021-Ship-It-Transcripts

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[1641.64 --> 1646.72] The point being, go as quickly as you can, but still it should feel like a comfortable pace.
[1646.90 --> 1647.00] Yeah.
[1647.00 --> 1650.10] You shouldn't feel like you're rushing things out.
[1650.60 --> 1652.94] The scientific method is really important.
[1653.62 --> 1655.00] Everything that you think is an assumption.
[1655.48 --> 1657.52] And by the way, it's most likely wrong.
[1657.78 --> 1662.86] But that's okay because the quicker you can iterate on that, the quicker you'll figure out what right looks like.
[1663.00 --> 1663.06] Yeah.
[1663.06 --> 1667.62] And once you know one right, then you'll have two, three.
[1667.74 --> 1670.52] And before you know it, you have like a set of things which work well together.
[1670.78 --> 1672.96] And that's the value that I see.
[1673.20 --> 1673.50] Absolutely.
[1674.00 --> 1678.88] One thing that I also find important, you said, yeah, go quicker.
[1679.40 --> 1680.60] Yes, this is right.
[1680.88 --> 1685.08] But you also need to recognize when it is enough.
[1685.34 --> 1688.02] And I think this is also quite an important thing.
[1688.02 --> 1691.46] You don't need to chase Google, Netflix or so.
[1691.46 --> 1701.32] It can be perfectly fine in your context to, for example, ship every day or every week or so.
[1701.50 --> 1707.64] You don't need to deploy to production every second like Amazon is doing it.
[1708.12 --> 1713.52] So I think there is always a sweet spot and you need to identify this sweet spot.
[1714.24 --> 1714.38] Yeah.
[1714.76 --> 1720.60] In my mind, any code, any feature that is built and it's not out there, it's inventory.
[1720.60 --> 1724.18] And we all know that zero inventory is the best type of inventory.
[1724.44 --> 1726.64] So whatever you have, just make sure it's out there.
[1726.76 --> 1728.32] Make sure people can start using it.
[1728.32 --> 1730.28] Even if it's not complete, it doesn't really matter.
[1730.50 --> 1731.42] Does it look right?
[1731.92 --> 1734.74] And if it looks right, you have a confidence, okay, I'm walking in the right direction.
[1734.86 --> 1736.14] Let's just keep adding on top of it.
[1736.14 --> 1745.56] But if you can verify those assumptions as early as possible, the chances of you going terribly wrong are much less.
[1745.94 --> 1748.56] You're less likely to go terribly wrong if you have that approach.
[1748.80 --> 1754.28] You will still go wrong, but that's okay as long as you can do those small course adjustments.
[1754.28 --> 1755.88] It's like driving on a motorway, right?
[1755.92 --> 1758.22] You do like a little bit of left and a little bit of right.
[1758.22 --> 1765.68] And if you have an autopilot, because we were talking about your Tesla, you can see those like very small steering wheel changes without you doing anything.
[1766.04 --> 1769.76] So that's what you want, like the small course adjustments continues.
[1770.22 --> 1772.28] And they happen every few seconds and it's okay.
[1772.62 --> 1772.96] Absolutely.
[1773.28 --> 1780.30] And one of the things that I usually see, many companies, it is not allowed to make failures.
[1780.30 --> 1789.28] And this is a huge pity because when you always need to do things right, you cannot go that fast.
[1789.94 --> 1791.56] That's a huge problem.
[1791.78 --> 1797.78] And this is also a cultural shift and cultural shifts, they take a lot of time.
[1798.32 --> 1803.36] Can you think of an example when making a mistake was a great thing?
[1803.44 --> 1808.20] When making a mistake or failure, people have learned from that failure.
[1808.20 --> 1813.10] And if they weren't allowed to make it in the first place, they wouldn't have had those learnings.
[1813.34 --> 1814.52] Can you think of such an example?
[1814.96 --> 1816.90] Yeah, of course I have such an example.
[1817.24 --> 1821.78] So in one of the projects, we needed to move fast.
[1822.28 --> 1831.26] And in order to move fast, we said, okay, we have already an application in place, which we're using server-side rendering.
[1831.86 --> 1834.48] But that was an old technology.
[1834.48 --> 1840.22] And we said, okay, we can use that, but the user experience will not be that good.
[1840.42 --> 1841.96] But we need to move fast.
[1842.56 --> 1854.22] So we made an architectural decision together with the business and said, okay, we will use this old technology and move on so that we can learn.
[1854.64 --> 1857.62] And we were building up the user interface with that.
[1857.62 --> 1864.16] But soon the business said, yeah, it looks okay, but we want to have a better user experience.
[1864.88 --> 1868.50] So a user experience specialist came to the project.
[1868.64 --> 1872.78] He designed quite some very nice user interfaces.
[1872.78 --> 1877.40] And we said, poor, we don't know if we can implement that with this old technology.
[1877.40 --> 1880.34] But we tried and we failed.
[1880.44 --> 1881.56] We failed very hard.
[1881.68 --> 1882.84] We had a lot of bugs.
[1883.72 --> 1891.98] And this was the time when I went to the management and I said, look, management, we have the iceberg in front of us.
[1892.46 --> 1894.26] Now we have three possibilities.
[1894.60 --> 1895.18] We go left.
[1895.18 --> 1904.42] And this would mean we need to change the UI technology of the whole application to a modern UI technology.
[1904.98 --> 1907.14] I think it was Angular in that time.
[1907.14 --> 1908.68] Or we go right.
[1909.20 --> 1918.18] And right is we stay with this technology, which we are having, but it will not look fancy.
[1918.18 --> 1922.54] And we remove everything that we just added, all that fanciness.
[1923.12 --> 1928.02] And it's just user interfaces with loading time and so on.
[1928.10 --> 1934.80] Or we go straight through the iceberg and say, no, we want that with this old technology.
[1935.26 --> 1938.40] But it can be that we will fail very hard.
[1939.04 --> 1941.46] And we had a very good discussion about that.
[1941.66 --> 1943.82] And we said, we take the risk.
[1944.14 --> 1946.18] We go to a new UI technology.
[1946.18 --> 1952.36] Of course, we made some silly estimations, which were absolutely wrong.
[1952.94 --> 1955.04] We completely underestimated it.
[1955.48 --> 1959.70] But in the end, it was the right decision, which we did.
[1960.10 --> 1961.94] And the thing is, is the following.
[1962.32 --> 1965.40] In the beginning, we started with this old technology.
[1965.84 --> 1969.78] And that was, of course, when you look back, a bad decision.
[1969.78 --> 1978.38] But it enabled us to learn very fast what we really wanted or what the customer really wanted.
[1979.08 --> 1982.54] And we were able to see, okay, it looks like that.
[1982.82 --> 1985.24] We added the whole user experience.
[1985.44 --> 1988.66] We saw with this technology, we were not able to do it.
[1988.66 --> 1993.26] And we were able to see that we now need to change.
[1993.54 --> 1998.04] Of course, now you can say, yeah, you could see that already in the beginning.
[1998.04 --> 2000.64] And you could change that already in the beginning.
[2000.86 --> 2002.86] But in my opinion, it was not feasible.
[2003.46 --> 2003.58] Yeah.
[2003.82 --> 2005.82] That's a really interesting story.
[2005.82 --> 2015.60] And I'm wondering what the story would have been had the developers maybe stumbled across something like LiveView, which is server-side rendering.
[2015.92 --> 2020.38] But it's a modern server-side rendering, which exists in the Elixir ecosystem.
[2020.72 --> 2022.04] It's all running on the Erlang VM.
[2022.30 --> 2023.08] Very efficient.
[2023.46 --> 2025.98] It keeps JavaScript at a minimum.
[2026.38 --> 2030.32] So you don't have to end up in the NPM hell, as some call it.
[2030.48 --> 2031.46] You can keep things simple.
[2031.56 --> 2033.68] You can keep things server-side rendered.
[2034.12 --> 2034.96] But it's still fast.