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**William Morgan:** Yeah, so what we've seen basically is people using Helm, or Terraform, or tools that allow you to do it in a programmatic and repeatable way... And I think that's probably the best practice for production. You wanna be able to - especially if you're in the world of spinning up multiple clusters, or ... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay. One of the things which I've seen and I quite liked, especially when it comes to some projects which can be a bit more involved to set up, is there's an operator which is just meant to install things, and then you apply a thing, and the operator knows how to install itself... Because then the th... |
**William Morgan:** \[12:02\] Yeah. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So does Linkerd have something like that, or is Linkerd thinking about something like that? |
**William Morgan:** It's certainly something we've discussed in the past, and I don't think there's a reason why we wouldn't do it. Easing upgrades especially is something I'd love to do. The upgrade to 2.11 is actually pretty easy, but going from 2.9 to 2.10 was painful. Some of the configs changed, and stuff like tha... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Nice. Very smooth, very smooth. Okay. So the upgrade from 2.10 to 2.11 - is it just apply the Helm upgrade? Is that all it takes? |
**William Morgan:** That really should be it. We didn't change -- there was one or two breaking changes around the mechanics of some of the multi-cluster stuff, but the majority of 2.11 is really additive... Which, again, is a theme that we try and stick to with Linkerd. So all of the policy stuff, which was a new feat... |
If you read that long, long MTLS guide that you talked about - the vast majority of that is complicated stuff, and at the end I'm like "But you don't have to do any of that, because you can just install Linkerd and it does all that stuff for you." And that means that all the policy stuff can then be built on top of the... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay. Do you have any dependency on something like cert manager, or maybe a specific Kubernetes version? What does that look like? |
**William Morgan:** So for Kubernetes versions we basically try and support the most recent three Kubernetes versions... And often we'll have support for earlier ones, but it's not -- really the policy is like "Okay, the most recent three." Now, if you really have to do something with an older release, maybe we can mak... |
In terms of dependencies on cert manager - there's not an explicit dependency, but one thing you do have to figure out when you're running Linkerd is the certificate rotation, not of the pods themselves, but of the cluster-level issuer certificate. We have some docs on how to have that automated with a cert manager... ... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Right. That's a good one. Yeah, that actually catches quite a few people. |
**William Morgan:** It does. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** They don't think about that. |
**William Morgan:** Yeah. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** But maybe if you upgrade, does it get rotated part of the upgrade? Because that would solve the problem... No, it doesn't. |
**William Morgan:** No, it doesn't, because -- I don't believe it does. Actually, I'm not sure. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay. |
**William Morgan:** But in relation to this, there's also the trust certificate or the trust route, which definitely doesn't get rotated as part of an upgrade... And that also has a one-year expiration. So you know, it is easy to install and it's easy to make things work, but like with any sophisticated piece of techno... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** That's a good one. Okay, I didn't know about that. Thank you, that's a great, great tip. |
**William Morgan:** \[15:55\] You've gotta make sure you don't have clock skew between the nodes, because all these TLS certificates - you don't have time components, and if you've got a big clock skew, then things are not gonna be able to connect, even though they should. There's details. It turns out computers are co... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So I'm wondering, what are you looking forward to the most when it comes to KubeCon? This KubeCon which is -- |
**William Morgan:** Oh, for me that's easy, and it's actually not really project -- well, it's kind of project-related... It's just being there in person with other human beings. For me, that's so gratifying. I think open source can be a little isolating, because a lot of your interactions with people are. They come in... |
But in-person, when you talk to these people, you realize there actually are a ton of people who are running Linkerd, it's solving big problems for them, and now they have an opportunity to come up and tell you about that. So that aspect has always been really amazing for me. And the virtual conferences, as much as I l... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Oh, yes. Don't we all. Don't we all. I wish there wasn't a screen today, yeah. \[laughs\] |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Another human that's not part of my family! Isn't that nice?! \[laughs\] |
**William Morgan:** They're sick of hearing about it. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Right. Okay. So if someone's listening to this, and you are using Linkerd, and especially if it works, and you don't think you need to get back to William and the Buoyant team and the Linkerd community - that's actually wrong. Go and show a sign of gratitude. Say "Hey, thank you. This is great." Share... |
**William Morgan:** Yeah. At a minimum, swing by -- if you're at KubeCon, swing by and say hi. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah, that as well. That as well. I wish I could swing by, but I can't. Next one. |
**William Morgan:** Next one. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** If you come to Europe... Because that's where the next one will be. So anyways... For the people that can't attend KubeCon, like myself, and they'll be catching up on videos - any advice that you have for those people? How can they make the most out of it, even though they can't be there in person, an... |
**William Morgan:** Yeah. So you know, I don't know if I have great advice. My relationship with virtual conferences is not a great one... It's just a different experience. I don't know, I think like many of us, I sit in front of a screen all day, and it's really hard to wanna keep doing that in any other form... But I... |
So I don't know about the rest of the conference, but I think the Linkerd booth at least will be interesting. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay. Did you have time to check the talk schedule? Anything interesting, any talks that you're looking forward to? |
**William Morgan:** Well, now I'm gonna seem like a bad person, because I only looked at the Linkerd talks. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** That's okay, that's fine. That's perfectly fine. |
**William Morgan:** Yeah, we have one -- |
**Gerhard Lazu:** My kids are also the best, you know what I mean? \[laughs\] |
**William Morgan:** \[19:43\] So there are two talks at KubeCon that I'm particularly excited about... Actually, one of them is gonna be a ServiceMeshCon, which is a day zero event, which I have mixed feelings about as a conference... But there is a really cool talk there from the folks at Elkjøp which is the largest r... |
And then the other one that I'm really excited about is from (I guess) the other part of the world, which is the folks from Maintain Australia; they have this amazing story where they basically 10x their throughput using Linkerd, their entire system. They have a really big deployment through combination load balancing ... |
So those two things I'm really excited about, because I've been talking to these people, to both of them, for a long time, and... Yeah, I'm just really excited to get their story out there. They're both really exciting stories. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay. I will make sure to check them out as well. I will put them in the show notes for people to check them out if they'll be available... But that's great, thank you for sharing that. |
When it comes to the people that you're most looking forward to meeting - anyone in particular that you wanna shout out? |
**William Morgan:** Oh, boy... Actually, I'm meeting a ton of people there... But is there any one I wanna shout out? No, I don't think so. \[laughs\] |
**Gerhard Lazu:** That's good. It's too many. Let's pretend it's so many - like, no particular name comes to your mind. That's okay. That works, too. |
**William Morgan:** You know, one thing that's weird is I'm gonna be meeting people who have worked on Linkerd for a long time, who I've never actually met in-person. That part is exciting. I'm gonna be meeting people who work at Buoyant who I've never actually met in-person... Even though I'm the CEO, I've never actua... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Well, I hope everybody shows up, and everybody will be just as excited as you to meet them. |
**William Morgan:** I hope so. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** And happy afterwards. Like, they all want to do it again. |
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