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**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah, that's what happens... And I'm imagining that you're not going to attend the conference in-person, right? |
**Frederic Branczyk:** Yeah... Unfortunately, as much as I would have wanted to, and unfortunately, travel restrictions are still in place for Europe to travel to the U.S. But you know, there's always another KubeCon. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah, it was the same for me. You're right. I really wanted to be there in person. So what advice do you have for those who couldn't attend, and will be attending virtually, and some will be catching up on the videos, because they won't be able to attend virtually because of the time difference. |
**Frederic Branczyk:** Yeah, I mean - look, it's like, half of the world that's not able to attend this KubeCon, so you're not alone... I know there are several folks that are doing just local meetups, or local virtual meetups, or just going for lunch or something, find your local group... Or if not, just watch the rec... |
You know, we've got KubeCon EU coming up next year, it's at the end of the winter, so no matter what happens, that's the time when Covid cases went down anyways. I feel like the next KubeCon in EU is gonna be great. A lot of us are gonna be able to attend that one, if not this one. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Those are some great tips. Is there anything interesting happening in the next six months for Parca that you want to share? |
**Frederic Branczyk:** I think in a way a lot what we're -- we shared it really early intentionally, to understand what the community also wants from a project like this. We intentionally did not immediately release multiple types of visualizations, or we didn't immediately go all-in on a query language, or stuff like ... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Wow. That's amazing. I wish everybody thought like that... And I think most people think like that in the CNCF space, and it just goes to show... That's it - this right here is the reason why the CNCF is as successful; because people think like you do. It's amazing to see that. |
The one thing which I would like to do as we are wrapping this up is I want to congratulate you on the hiring page, which I think is a baseline for others to follow. It's simple, it's to the point, it's inviting... It makes me want to find out more, and that is saying a lot. So I would like to congratulate you once aga... |
**Frederic Branczyk:** Thank you. |
**Break:** \[43:00\] |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So the first time that I've heard about COSI was at KubeCon EU in May... And in that COSI talk, Andrew and Steven did an amazing job. My concluding thought was that it made me reconsider the operating system that I want for Changelog.com... And I do have to say that while I didn't get there, I'm reall... |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Yeah, I have since upgraded, since KubeCon EU. I think that was with my blue baby bottle this one is the sennheiser mkh 416. This one is made for like voiceover, so... Yeah, I'm loving it. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** It's an amazing sound, I have to say, and there's also something natural there, so I really like it. You know, listening to that talk, and seeing the visuals that Steven produced - they were amazing. That was a great one. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Awesome. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So since KubeCon EU, which is about five months now, what is new in the world of COSI? |
**Andrew Rynhard:** So COSI proper, as far as what it is, and the GitHub org, and outside of Talos, not much has looked like it has changed. But in Talos itself, we've been implementing a lot of the ideas, and kind of using that as a proving grounds, if you will, for the idea. And it's actually working out phenomenally... |
We've since launched a product called KubeSpan, which we could probably get into more later, but it's basically a way to do automated WireGuard. And in Talos, all you really do is you set up two little configuration, you set them enabled true, or something to that effect, and, then all of a sudden, all these nodes know... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** First of all, when I looked at Talos, it looked really interesting. The getting started part - I struggled a little bit. And you know, Sidero came along, and that made some things easier... COSI was really interesting, because the concepts - they were not specific to an implementation, but they were l... |
I do have to say, since trying Sidero - the first one I think was 0.1, when I struggled... I haven't tried it since. I know it's 0.3... So even though I would love to start with this, how would I start? Where would I go with Talos? Which is the first thing that I would do? What would you recommend? |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Yeah, so we have the ability to basically spin up Kubernetes clusters right there on your laptop, built into our CLI. I'd say that that's the easiest way. If you wanna get a feel for what it's like to interact with an operating system that's API-driven and has a CLI, and doesn't have SSH, and all th... |
\[47:55\] The good news is this kind of translates really well into, say, running it on bare metal. You could literally grab that configuration file, maybe modify the networking section a little bit, turn on a machine with an ISO file, and submit the configuration file that you had running from your mock environment...... |
So at that point, it's really just crafting the networking section, as we just talked about. COSI is gonna roll those out for you; well, Talos using COSI... The easiest way to get started on bare metal, I would say, is using the ISO. After that, PXE booting. PXE booting is a whole other level, and that's where we have ... |
In the cloud it's a little bit different. You have to have some image that's been uploaded, and all of our documentation goes through how to upload the image. In our releases we have the assets already prepared for you. You follow the documentation to upload the image into your particular cloud, and all you do really i... |
So what I'm getting at really at the end of the day is - it just really boils down to "How do I get Talos just simply installed, or running somewhere?", whether that's a VM, or containers, or bare metal... And then it's just knowing the configuration file. In the same way that with Kubernetes I know that I have Kuberne... |
So getting started - it's really just grasping the idea that you just need to turn Talos on, however that may be and wherever that may be, and get comfortable with the configuration file and being able to submit and update the system. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I can see where I've been going wrong, because I usually start in the cloud, and I usually start with PXE booting. And I think that is possibly the hardest way... So if you start there without knowing the lay of the land, you went in extreme mode, so good luck trying to figure all those things out. I ... |
**Andrew Rynhard:** I wanna touch on that, because I actually think that that's really important to point out, and that's actually a huge motivating factor around Talos, was because I was managing Kubernetes clusters, and the first place that I was doing this we were debating, "Should we do this with bare metal? Can we... |
\[52:02\] So Talos is really beautiful in that sense, because it's literally the same image. The same image that runs right there on your laptop can be rolled out to anywhere - Raspberry Pi's, the cloud, bare metal... Anywhere that you can imagine. And the experience is going to be consistent, more or less. Obviously, ... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I feel that you've shared a secret with us, or at least with me... And now I know what I need to do next, so thank you very much for that. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Of course. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** The next thing which I'm thinking about is why would someone want to pick Talos over, let's say, Debian or Ubuntu? What would you say to them? |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Yeah, so this is a question we usually get. One of the main reasons that you really would consider Talos over, like you said, something like Debian, is because these things simply come with way too much at the end of the day. They come with package managers, they come with an extra set of packages t... |
So the first point is the minimalism that you're gonna get with Talos. It's only about 15 MB. At the end of the day, you're gonna get something extremely small comparative to everything else out there. You're gonna get no package manager. We don't even have SSH or Bash. And the reason why we did things like that - or w... |
So the whole goal with Talos is to just remove that Node element entirely, so that you can focus on just the cluster. We like to tell people that we want them to look at the cluster as one giant machine; and then nodes simply as more compute to that. So it's just more CPU and RAM to a bigger machine. We can't really lo... |
And secondly, we have a really strong security emphasis. We recently just went through a whole exercise of actually securing our supply chain. So now everything's completely reproducible, you can get all of the checksums and make sure that you're actually running the intended version of Talos. The file system is read-o... |
Now, Kubernetes of course needs places to write things, and there's only one place in Talos that's writeable; it's /var. At least writeable in the sense that it's going to be persisted across reboots. Of course, we have /temp and things like that, but that is completely ephemeral and only Talos uses those places. |
So you're gonna get a much more hardened experience. You're gonna get people that can't -- you're gonna completely eliminate the possibility of people going on there and making a node a snowflake. It's really just Kubernetes that can change. So that's a huge benefit when you're talking about running anything more than ... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I know that everybody's thinking about security chain attacks, and security of everything - software, developers, signing... Can you sign everything, from your commit to the release, to the artifact, to what it runs, when it runs, so that you can trace it all the way back to the origin of the code bei... |
\[56:28\] So from that perspective, I know that these minimalist systems, one of the things that they replace - and I wonder if Talos does the same thing - they replace glibc for something like musl. And what then tends to happen is glibc is a lot more hardened, battle-hardened, battle-tested, so the performance on gli... |
**Andrew Rynhard:** We actually use Musl, and we haven't seen that at all. And I think that may largely be due to the fact that the only reason that we run musl - let's see... We only have a handful really on the rootfs. We have Containerd, and we have xfsprogs, and maybe some LVM tooling, and then Talos itself. So the... |
So I think maybe that can be contributed to the fact that we are running musl, but we haven't run into any issues. And then, Kubernetes itself, since it's delivered in containers, those containers have glibc. So the role that musl really plays in our ecosystem is very small. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah. I always had it different. Usually, the host would run glibc, and the container would run musl. And then that combination, from that direction, always seemed to create problems. This was about two years ago I remember, when we were looking at RabbitMQ the image, in the context of running it at p... |
**Andrew Rynhard:** We are on the latest LTS. I think it's 510.62 |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Nice. Okay, okay. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** We used to run the latest Linux kernel, and we still kind of go back and forth on what we should do... And I think we're now leaning more towards LTS, because the changes that Linux introduces sometimes just cause us more headaches, especially when you're on the bleeding edge versions of it. But the... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So speaking about LTS' strategy and roadmaps - anything interesting coming in the next six months? So between this KubeCon and the next one for Talos and COSI? |
**Andrew Rynhard:** Yeah, I'd say the biggest one is this week we're announcing KubeSpan, which is -- I mean, I'm just super-excited about this idea, and I haven't even explained it yet... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay... Yes, please... That sounds very interesting. Please. |
**Andrew Rynhard:** \[59:50\] Yes... The idea is that, since Talos can run practically anywhere, we're finding people want to bridge, say, bare metal clusters with instances running in the cloud. And so far, there hasn't been any good solutions for this. With Talos we're kind of uniquely-positioned; since it's API-driv... |
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