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[5247.58 --> 5249.78] And also what I'm getting at is I would like to find out more.
[5249.90 --> 5251.60] So you know what the follow-up is, right?
[5251.94 --> 5252.22] Yeah.
[5252.64 --> 5254.32] CDK is a really cool tool.
[5254.40 --> 5255.58] And it's very similar to Pulumi.
[5255.58 --> 5257.06] It doesn't have the provider support.
[5257.18 --> 5259.64] It doesn't support the Terraform providers out of the box.
[5259.78 --> 5262.26] Kind of like what Pulumi tries to do with their generators.
[5262.46 --> 5263.22] The CDK is awesome.
[5263.34 --> 5267.90] And I think what really excels here is that Pulumi and CDK shine when you're using TypeScript.
[5268.12 --> 5272.98] I think it's such a great language for infrastructure as code because it's strictly typed.
[5272.98 --> 5278.26] You can have interfaces that you can define for the different properties that you need to get out to expose output variables.
[5278.38 --> 5279.70] You're just using the export keyword.
[5279.98 --> 5282.56] Like all of these things just TypeScript is just great.
[5282.66 --> 5287.98] I think if you haven't tried to do any infrastructure as code using TypeScript with CDK or Pulumi, you should just go try it.
[5288.08 --> 5288.66] It's so cool.
[5289.08 --> 5295.58] And the way that the node ecosystem in TypeScript allows you to pass functions around or, you know, the first class, they can be exported.
[5295.88 --> 5296.76] They can be renamed.
[5296.86 --> 5297.44] They can be bound.
[5297.52 --> 5298.36] They can be higher order.
[5298.44 --> 5299.70] You can pass function within the functions.
[5299.70 --> 5301.52] The flexibility there is phenomenal.
[5301.70 --> 5305.60] So I encourage everyone to try TypeScript first before going to any of the other languages.
[5306.20 --> 5307.10] But not you.
[5307.54 --> 5308.36] You're Go, right?
[5308.64 --> 5310.66] I do most of my Pulumi in TypeScript.
[5311.02 --> 5312.36] I have started doing it in Go.
[5312.60 --> 5314.12] And I just, it's not as nice.
[5314.28 --> 5318.16] Error checking all of the time is still very present in Pulumi Go.
[5318.66 --> 5320.28] So I do stick to TypeScript, actually.
[5320.64 --> 5327.26] I actually, when I was working at Equinix Metal, I handled all of the Tinkerbell CICD infrastructure using Pulumi with Go.
[5327.74 --> 5328.94] And it was super painful.
[5328.94 --> 5331.54] So I actually opened an issue going, please let me do this in TypeScript.
[5332.44 --> 5332.80] Okay.
[5333.22 --> 5334.14] And how did that go?
[5334.24 --> 5335.68] Is it still open, the issue?
[5336.08 --> 5338.98] We closed the issue and left it in Go just because the work was done.
[5339.28 --> 5345.02] But TypeScript, because of first class functions support, higher order functions, being able to pass them around, being able to publish it to NPM.
[5345.54 --> 5347.18] There's just so many convenience factors there.
[5347.26 --> 5348.28] That ecosystem is great.
[5348.48 --> 5349.22] Dependencies in Go.
[5349.80 --> 5351.06] I mean, does anyone love them?
[5351.58 --> 5352.06] Probably not.
[5352.20 --> 5353.18] Yeah, I know.
[5353.28 --> 5354.32] That's like a very weird.
[5354.44 --> 5355.44] Things are better now.
[5355.44 --> 5360.16] I mean, I still have nightmares from like six, seven years ago, like early Go when it was just released.
[5360.22 --> 5361.34] It was amazing as a language.
[5361.84 --> 5363.68] But oh my goodness me, the whole dependencies.
[5364.42 --> 5371.76] It's just like, and it was like, I keep forgetting there was like all these tools which were being invented, which were like half working and mostly not working.
[5371.76 --> 5375.40] I even forget like the names of those tools and they were like so annoying.
[5375.72 --> 5376.68] They were trying to be helpful.
[5376.84 --> 5378.06] They were trying to address the pain.
[5378.40 --> 5381.24] But I think they were causing even more pain in the process.
[5381.44 --> 5382.34] So I remember that.
[5382.64 --> 5383.64] That's actually a good point.
[5383.88 --> 5387.86] Yeah, we used to vendor everything and commit them to our own Git repositories, which was terrible.
[5388.08 --> 5395.42] And then we had that semi-official dip, which just magically disappeared because GoMod came out with like, well, 110, 111.
[5395.50 --> 5396.32] 111, I think it was.
[5396.32 --> 5397.32] And it's been better.
[5397.56 --> 5403.14] I've got to say, but since more projects are now running GoMod, my life is easier, but still definitely challenging.
[5403.44 --> 5403.60] Okay.
[5404.16 --> 5410.68] So as we are getting close to wrapping this up, I have one more thought, which I want to share with you.
[5411.20 --> 5412.64] And it's more like a question, really.
[5413.08 --> 5414.32] What happens with raw code?
[5414.70 --> 5415.54] Oh, that's not stopping.
[5415.78 --> 5419.88] You know, I've been taking a nice break, bedtime with my family for the last couple of weeks.
[5420.30 --> 5422.78] But raw code live will be back in Anger in November.
[5422.78 --> 5426.56] And then we've just more, you know, the cloud native ecosystem is not standing still.
[5426.80 --> 5428.44] There are so many, many projects out there.
[5428.64 --> 5435.48] I think what we will see changing in raw code is, you know, I'll probably move away from just high level introductions to all these tools.
[5435.84 --> 5438.42] You know, it's great having the founder there and just showing people how to get started.
[5438.56 --> 5441.28] But I really want to get into use case specific stuff.
[5441.44 --> 5445.56] So I've been talking to more people in the community and going, what are you actually doing with this tool?
[5445.66 --> 5447.20] And what problem is it solving for you?
[5447.20 --> 5454.72] So that we can show people not just the getting started guys from all these projects, but here's a real use case that this organization has.
[5454.84 --> 5458.02] And here's what they're doing with this tool to give people a bit more inspiration.
[5458.30 --> 5459.96] Hopefully remove some of that cognitive.
[5460.26 --> 5461.34] Well, did I call it earlier?
[5461.84 --> 5462.94] Fatigue, decision fatigue.
[5463.16 --> 5464.52] Like we want to try and remove some of this.
[5464.64 --> 5467.26] Like if you're staring there and you're like, what GitOps tool do I use?
[5467.36 --> 5468.88] Or which CNI do I use?
[5469.10 --> 5470.94] Like, okay, what is your use case?
[5471.08 --> 5471.50] Who does it?
[5471.54 --> 5472.76] Is it similar to this organization?
[5472.88 --> 5475.86] So this one, and here's the one they use and how they're getting on and what they're doing.
[5475.86 --> 5479.32] But yeah, you'll see more use case driven stuff in the next few months.
[5479.62 --> 5481.98] That's really exciting because I'm thinking exactly the same way.
[5482.36 --> 5491.90] I mean, it's great to have all these conversations, like to get people interested and to get people kind of steered into what resonates with them so that they know what's out there.
[5491.94 --> 5493.72] And there's so much out there, as you mentioned.
[5493.94 --> 5501.46] But once you do that, you kind of start, I don't know, you feel which way you'd want to go, which way gets you most excited.
[5501.86 --> 5505.68] And then the next natural step is to explore that space, right?
[5505.68 --> 5508.40] You don't want to stay shallow all the time.
[5508.74 --> 5510.84] I mean, breadth is very important.
[5511.22 --> 5520.14] But there comes a point you want to go a bit deeper than like the first hour or the first like two hours, which is just very early beginning of any tool, really.
[5520.80 --> 5524.06] So yeah, I think there's like everything we do is difficult, right?
[5524.14 --> 5525.30] Software development is not easy.
[5525.52 --> 5526.60] Doesn't matter how long you've been doing it.
[5526.66 --> 5528.26] In fact, it probably gets harder the longer you've been doing it.