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[4577.36 --> 4578.76] Yeah, 2019. |
[4579.00 --> 4581.68] I was actually there at that KubeCon, and I was so excited. |
[4581.96 --> 4583.38] That was also the North America one. |
[4583.86 --> 4586.46] And I would like to dig more into that to see why that happened. |
[4586.82 --> 4589.60] I didn't get the chance to speak to the Flux team. |
[4589.82 --> 4590.68] They're, like, on my list. |
[4590.82 --> 4591.50] They really are. |
[4591.60 --> 4593.16] But it's, like, you know, too many things happening. |
[4593.46 --> 4594.62] But the day will come. |
[4594.66 --> 4595.78] There's a GitOps days, I think. |
[4595.84 --> 4599.08] There's, like, a summit coming or, like, next week, I believe. |
[4599.32 --> 4599.58] Maybe. |
[4599.78 --> 4600.64] I can't remember exactly. |
[4600.88 --> 4601.72] Yeah, something like that. |
[4601.76 --> 4602.94] Like, it's happening as well. |
[4603.20 --> 4605.16] And that will be an interesting one to watch. |
[4605.16 --> 4612.82] But I would really like to understand what happened there with Flux and Argo and what are the strengths and the weaknesses of one versus the other. |
[4612.90 --> 4614.40] The UI, that's, like, a good one. |
[4614.72 --> 4618.70] I do have to say, even though I have tried Argo, I haven't tried Flux. |
[4619.18 --> 4625.10] So this GitHub Summit, which is coming, I'm hoping I'll be able to try it out in that context. |
[4625.20 --> 4625.96] I'm looking forward to that. |
[4626.08 --> 4626.20] Okay. |
[4626.20 --> 4633.04] I think Flux shines a bit better when it comes to being a bit more agnostic on the tools that you want to use to actually generate the YAML. |
[4633.30 --> 4636.24] Like, you know, not all of our GitOps repositories are straight YAML manifests. |
[4636.58 --> 4641.52] And we're using tools that customize or the Carvel dev tools or we're using Capitan. |
[4641.92 --> 4643.14] Like, there's so much choice there. |
[4643.30 --> 4646.60] You know, decision fatigue is real, especially in the cloud-native landscape. |
[4646.94 --> 4651.98] So Flux makes it a lot easier to say, I want to use a tool to generate the manifest before we do the apply stage. |
[4652.14 --> 4655.28] With Argo, I think it's a little bit more convoluted. |
[4655.28 --> 4658.18] There has to be a concept of, like, a provider, if I remember correctly. |
[4658.58 --> 4659.62] And they're not all supported. |
[4659.86 --> 4661.50] But that could have changed since the last time I looked. |
[4661.74 --> 4662.02] Cool. |
[4662.50 --> 4662.80] Okay. |
[4663.14 --> 4664.40] I definitely have to follow up on that. |
[4664.44 --> 4665.14] So thank you for that. |
[4665.26 --> 4665.52] Thank you. |
[4665.56 --> 4666.36] I really appreciate it. |
[4666.66 --> 4669.98] In the context of KubeCon coming back, so there's the operations track. |
[4670.28 --> 4671.92] Any other track that you're excited about? |
[4672.10 --> 4672.54] All of them. |
[4672.64 --> 4680.38] I think I'm in a really unfortunate position, which you probably are as well, is that, you know, we need to really stay on top of a lot of this, you know, as well as our day jobs. |
[4680.86 --> 4684.96] We have our extracurricular activities where we need to be knowledgeable in a lot of these domains. |
[4684.96 --> 4690.58] So I really am watching all of the tracks as much as possible and 2x in all the talks on YouTube. |
[4690.80 --> 4696.18] But anything to do with continuous integration and delivery is something that I'm really keen on following talks with. |
[4696.50 --> 4697.52] Infrastructure of code. |
[4697.86 --> 4700.22] Infrastructure as code, of course. |
[4700.22 --> 4702.26] Definitely loving tools that are doing this. |
[4702.50 --> 4717.38] And one of the reasons I joined Pulumi is just because it directly is everything I love doing with platforms, which is taking the primitive tools that we have, like Flux and Argo and Kubernetes and cloud providers, and being able to give developers a platform to deploy their applications. |
[4717.38 --> 4720.82] And my interest, Pulumi's interest are just the same there. |
[4721.06 --> 4724.08] So infrastructure of code, continuous integration, continuous delivery. |
[4724.72 --> 4727.34] Those are the main things I want to see from KubeCon this year. |
[4727.70 --> 4734.34] So I would like to dig into that a little bit more because that's like the other big thing that changed in the last month for you, the new job with Pulumi. |
[4734.54 --> 4737.96] I think Kat Cosgrove, is she there as well at Pulumi, I believe? |
[4737.96 --> 4741.50] Yes, Matty Stratton, Kat Cosgrove, and Laura Santamaria. |
[4741.86 --> 4742.68] They're my teammates. |
[4742.86 --> 4744.90] They're the developer advocacy team at Pulumi. |
[4745.58 --> 4749.16] And I'm joining in with some great people there, definitely. |
[4749.46 --> 4750.64] Yeah, a big shout out to them. |
[4751.00 --> 4752.62] That was the first thing which I wanted to do. |
[4752.94 --> 4758.10] And the second thing is ask you, as I asked you before, why Pulumi specifically? |
[4758.40 --> 4758.98] Why Pulumi? |
[4759.14 --> 4760.10] Could you see this one coming? |
[4760.18 --> 4761.34] Tell me, let's be honest. |
[4761.38 --> 4762.28] Did you see this one coming? |
[4762.38 --> 4763.30] Of course, of course. |
[4763.40 --> 4763.68] Okay. |
[4763.68 --> 4768.94] I always look back at my career and I've always worked for relatively small shops. |
[4769.18 --> 4772.90] You know, every time I write a line of code, I've always been responsible for the deployment of production. |
[4773.14 --> 4776.50] I've never had that throw over the wall scenario because of silence. |
[4776.96 --> 4781.54] So, you know, infrastructure as code and continuous integration and deployment, these are just things I've always had to do. |
[4781.66 --> 4783.58] I've never been able to dodge that bullet, unfortunately. |
[4783.94 --> 4788.48] So, you know, I think I cut my teeth like the rest of us using Terraform and HCL. |
[4788.90 --> 4791.22] And I think Terraform is a fantastic tool. |
[4791.58 --> 4793.18] No one's ever going to say otherwise, right? |
[4793.18 --> 4801.62] But there has some really rough edges when it comes to programmatically defining some elements of it, like nodes in a cluster or doing loops or conditionals. |
[4801.72 --> 4805.60] These things get a little bit tricky because of the constraints of the HCL language. |
[4805.92 --> 4809.58] Now, I know with Terraform 0.10, they started to bring in some of these primitives. |
[4809.80 --> 4815.72] But, you know, these primitives already exist in high-level programming languages, which is where Pulumi shines. |
[4815.88 --> 4820.62] It comes in and says, well, you can just define your resource graph using the language that you're familiar with. |
[4820.80 --> 4821.88] I'm a big fan of Go. |
[4821.88 --> 4823.08] I'm a big fan of TypeScript. |
[4823.24 --> 4824.66] They're both options available to me. |
[4824.98 --> 4827.52] But Pulumi also supports any of the .NET languages. |
[4827.72 --> 4828.54] It supports Python. |
[4829.02 --> 4830.28] And I'm sure there's other things coming. |
[4830.40 --> 4835.14] And there's some really cool announcements that I managed to sneakily find out just yesterday coming at KubeCon. |
[4835.14 --> 4841.34] So there's just all those languages that already have loops, conditionals, the ability to provide a single function. |
[4841.40 --> 4842.64] This is my favorite thing in Pulumi, right? |
[4842.70 --> 4844.64] Sorry, I'm going a little bit scourbred here. |
[4844.74 --> 4847.70] But being able to see, I want a Kubernetes cluster on GCP. |
[4847.90 --> 4849.96] And I want different node pools that look like this. |
[4850.02 --> 4851.04] And I want a load balancer. |
[4851.24 --> 4854.56] And I want some applications deployed to that cluster as part of the bootstrap process. |
[4854.74 --> 4856.96] Now, I could do that as an HCL Terraform module. |
[4856.96 --> 4864.72] But as a TypeScript Pulumi application, I can actually make that a function call, publish it to NPM, and then anyone can pull that in. |
[4864.84 --> 4874.64] You can literally do NPM install raw code, my super Kubernetes cluster package, call that function as many times as you want, get all these clusters with everything encapsulated in that way. |
[4874.92 --> 4876.20] And I just think that is a superpower. |
[4876.20 --> 4884.30] And I think, you know, once you see that and you start to use that approach, looking at more abstractions like HCL or YAML, you're just like, why? |
[4884.56 --> 4892.40] Why am I constraining myself to the opinions and the subjective nature of other people that think that's the best way to do it when my experience may be slightly different? |
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