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[4365.62 --> 4367.06] It's kind of where we're going here in this world. |
[4367.56 --> 4368.46] Signing commits is great. |
[4368.58 --> 4373.10] They can be used to kind of back up and, you know, provide other guarantees about who actually authored those commits. |
[4373.62 --> 4378.90] As they travel from your computer to GitHub to forks across GitHub to package managers and everything like that. |
[4379.24 --> 4381.54] That's just one link in the supply chain. |
[4381.54 --> 4385.82] Software supply chain security has been a huge hot topic over the last couple of years. |
[4386.78 --> 4390.04] And signing commits is kind of the first step, right? |
[4390.16 --> 4390.94] You're on a computer. |
[4391.10 --> 4392.26] You're typing code on your keyboard. |
[4392.46 --> 4394.34] That is the birth of software, right? |
[4394.40 --> 4396.36] As that code gets entered into your editor and stuff. |
[4396.46 --> 4397.80] And so, signing that makes a lot of sense. |
[4398.30 --> 4403.78] As it gets pushed up to a repository and it gets tagged, you want to sign those tags too so somebody knows that the release was authorized. |
[4404.64 --> 4409.74] As those tags get pulled down and compiled into artifacts, it makes sense to start signing those too. |
[4409.74 --> 4412.58] And that's where SIG Store is starting to see the most adoption right now. |
[4413.04 --> 4422.94] And signing various release artifacts that could be zip files or tarballs or more commonly today we're starting to see container images used for, you know, generic package management artifacts. |
[4423.68 --> 4428.72] And so, one of the projects in SIG Store called Cosign is, you know, dedicated to signing container images. |
[4429.30 --> 4438.32] And the kind of cool thing is because the container image standards have gotten so pervasive, we're starting to see people cram other things into container images that aren't even container images. |
[4438.32 --> 4438.88] Oh, yes. |
[4438.88 --> 4446.36] So, like the new WebAssembly modules have a little specification for how to store those in a container image without having to build a whole new package manager. |
[4446.86 --> 4452.20] So, all of these artifacts that come out, you know, from your build system, from your CIC system are very important to sign too. |
[4452.28 --> 4454.10] Because there's tons of different attacks that could happen. |
[4454.30 --> 4459.86] And then kind of lose that link between an opaque binary blob and the source code repository it actually came from. |
[4459.86 --> 4468.78] I think Go has possibly the best time when it comes to signing because you can do from scratch and then you don't worry where from scratch comes from. |
[4469.04 --> 4469.68] I think. |
[4469.96 --> 4470.38] I think. |
[4470.52 --> 4471.84] Because from scratch it's just empty. |
[4471.92 --> 4472.58] There's nothing there. |
[4472.74 --> 4475.42] But what about when you do, for example, from Ubuntu? |
[4475.74 --> 4477.14] That happens still quite a bit. |
[4477.14 --> 4483.86] Can you use cosine to check that from Ubuntu that not just that layer, but everything underneath has been signed? |
[4484.04 --> 4485.04] Does that exist today? |
[4485.36 --> 4485.60] Yeah. |
[4485.76 --> 4490.40] So, we're talking about kind of base images and image hierarchies and stuff here when it comes to container images. |
[4490.86 --> 4491.10] Yeah. |
[4491.24 --> 4492.04] A couple things there. |
[4492.24 --> 4500.32] Go has some awesome support for kind of static compilation of a Go binary, which means you can throw it into a container image without any of the other operating system runtime stuff. |
[4500.72 --> 4500.84] Yeah. |
[4500.86 --> 4502.32] So, if you do from scratch, that's awesome. |
[4502.46 --> 4502.78] You don't have. |
[4502.88 --> 4504.04] There's no base image to check. |
[4504.04 --> 4506.94] The only thing in there is your binary and some configuration. |
[4507.64 --> 4508.94] So, you can sign that resulting image. |
[4509.06 --> 4510.88] In that case, you know, there's no base image to check. |
[4510.96 --> 4514.54] And you can actually look at a container and prove that it was from scratch later after it was built. |
[4514.94 --> 4516.52] There would only be one layer inside of that. |
[4516.62 --> 4517.28] You don't have to worry. |
[4517.90 --> 4524.78] There's been some other recent work in the OCI or the Open Containers Initiative to start propagating a lot more metadata around. |
[4524.96 --> 4525.04] Right? |
[4525.04 --> 4533.34] One of the issues is that it's been around for a while is that if you did from Ubuntu and threw a Go application into there, it's really hard to figure out after it was built that it was actually from Ubuntu. |
[4533.34 --> 4535.16] Or which Ubuntu that was. |
[4535.38 --> 4544.52] But a couple months ago, one of my colleagues, Jason Hall at Red Hat, finally got a new field approved in the OCI specification for a standard base image annotation. |
[4545.00 --> 4552.50] So, build tools can start setting that in these JSON manifests to indicate which Ubuntu was used, where it was found, what the digest of that was at that time. |
[4552.50 --> 4554.00] And you can kind of actually check that later. |
[4554.10 --> 4555.68] So, you don't even really need to trust that tool. |
[4556.08 --> 4558.64] So, it's all about kind of leaving these breadcrumbs around. |
[4558.86 --> 4563.68] And so, now that we have that new breadcrumb, you know, from the fairy tale, you know, you can follow that back. |
[4563.76 --> 4568.16] You can find the Ubuntu image and you can check to see if that was signed by the original publisher. |
[4568.66 --> 4568.82] Yeah. |
[4568.82 --> 4572.02] So, this is something that just in the last couple of months has started becoming possible. |
[4572.28 --> 4572.30] Yeah. |
[4572.50 --> 4573.20] That's really cool. |
[4573.20 --> 4583.22] A good use case there, if you want to see that in practice, is actually something kind of fits right between From Scratch and Ubuntu, which are the distro-less base image suite, if you're familiar with those. |
[4583.34 --> 4583.54] Yes. |
[4583.66 --> 4583.86] Yeah. |
[4583.90 --> 4585.82] So, they're way closer to From Scratch. |
[4585.92 --> 4589.44] They have just a couple of other files you might need, even if you have a static Go application. |
[4590.04 --> 4597.30] Things like CA certificates, time zone data, they're just kind of a whole bunch of small text files that your application might need or expect to be in certain places. |
[4597.30 --> 4601.96] And those are actually built and signed with the SIG store tooling. |
[4602.06 --> 4602.38] Interesting. |
[4602.56 --> 4605.14] And they have a bunch of other cool properties, like they're reproducible. |
[4605.36 --> 4611.24] And so, we have a whole bunch of different build systems reproducing those builds and publishing and kind of proofs that they reproduce them. |
[4611.32 --> 4615.92] And so, you can look all of that up in our transparency log and verify it all the way back to the From Scratch. |
[4616.08 --> 4619.20] As far as I know, distro-less is a concept that comes from Google. |
[4619.44 --> 4622.24] And I'm wondering, is that something that you were involved with, distro-less? |
[4622.48 --> 4622.72] Yeah. |
[4622.72 --> 4626.60] So, I started that project with Linker Workers Map more years and years and years ago. |
[4626.60 --> 4630.50] So, we kind of did it as a proof of concept to show what some of this stuff looked like. |
[4630.58 --> 4634.80] We were playing around with the Bazel tool set at that time, and we got reproducible container builds working. |
[4635.06 --> 4635.70] It was pretty cool. |
[4636.16 --> 4637.24] He gave a talk at a conference. |
[4637.38 --> 4639.44] I think it was like a JFrog swamp up. |
[4639.60 --> 4641.60] And we just kind of kept playing with the repository. |
[4642.16 --> 4643.88] Didn't really expect much to come out of it. |
[4644.02 --> 4650.20] And then a couple years later, like what happens in open source, the Kubernetes release engineering team, so Stephen Augustus and his crew, |
[4650.20 --> 4655.38] moved all of the Kubernetes-based images from, I think, Debian or something like that to distro-less. |
[4655.38 --> 4656.98] Without even really telling us. |
[4657.08 --> 4661.88] And so, all of a sudden, overnight, this became like a piece of critical infrastructure for the entire container ecosystem. |
[4662.32 --> 4664.24] What started is like a little hobby project. |
[4664.94 --> 4665.14] Wow. |
[4665.44 --> 4667.78] I'm connecting some very important dots right now. |
[4667.98 --> 4669.76] Why we don't have the time to go into this. |
[4669.82 --> 4674.18] You have no idea how relevant this is to many of the topics and threads that I have in the background. |
[4674.38 --> 4678.10] I intend to come back to this in a few months, maybe a few weeks, but I'm thinking months. |
[4678.10 --> 4681.36] But I would like to talk about the big news right now. |
[4681.84 --> 4684.88] And that is the Chainguard About page. |
[4686.56 --> 4688.76] That's one of my favorite About pages. |
[4689.48 --> 4690.94] Can you tell us the story about that? |
[4690.98 --> 4691.22] So, okay. |
[4691.26 --> 4694.34] So, first of all, let me explain how it works because I love that. |
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