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[3995.70 --> 3996.80] This was an absolute pleasure. |
[3997.30 --> 3999.58] Looking forward to meeting you at the next KubeCon. |
[3999.74 --> 4000.54] Thank you for having me. |
[4000.54 --> 4021.30] I'm Jared Santo, GoTimes producer and a loyal listener of the show. |
[4021.30 --> 4025.86] This is the podcast for diverse discussions from around the Go community. |
[4026.34 --> 4029.72] GoTimes panel hosts special guests like Kelsey Hightower. |
[4029.72 --> 4035.36] And sometimes you can leverage a cloud provider and make margins on top. |
[4035.44 --> 4036.64] That's just good business. |
[4037.08 --> 4040.72] But when we're at the helm making the decision, we're like, yo, forget good business. |
[4041.32 --> 4045.52] I'm about to deploy Kafka to process 25 messages a year. |
[4046.60 --> 4048.26] It's nerd pride, right? |
[4049.04 --> 4051.52] Picks the brains of the Go team at Google. |
[4052.08 --> 4056.18] You don't get a good design by just grabbing features from other languages and gluing them together. |
[4056.18 --> 4061.68] Instead, we tried to build a coherent model for the language where all the pieces worked in concert. |
[4062.38 --> 4065.30] Shares their expertise from years in the industry. |
[4065.82 --> 4067.50] Don't expect to get it right from the start. |
[4067.78 --> 4069.08] You'll almost definitely get it wrong. |
[4069.16 --> 4071.18] You'll almost definitely have to go back and change some things. |
[4071.70 --> 4076.80] So, yeah, I think it goes back to what Peter said at the start, which is just make your code, write your code in a way that is easy to change. |
[4077.44 --> 4078.94] And then just don't be afraid to change it. |
[4079.20 --> 4081.88] And has an absolute riot along the way. |
[4081.88 --> 4086.26] Yeah, you know that little small voice in your head that tells you not to say things? |
[4086.96 --> 4087.96] What is that? |
[4088.78 --> 4089.74] How do you get one? |
[4091.36 --> 4092.28] You want one of those? |
[4092.30 --> 4093.56] Is it like an in-app purchase? |
[4094.22 --> 4095.72] It is go time. |
[4096.12 --> 4099.88] Please select a recent episode, give it a listen, and subscribe today. |
[4100.32 --> 4101.52] We'd love to have you with us. |
[4101.52 --> 4114.18] I'll ask the question that Stephen was afraid to ask. |
[4114.26 --> 4115.68] And afraid, I'm doing air quotes. |
[4116.22 --> 4118.36] What even is six story? |
[4119.30 --> 4120.86] So, that's a funny story, actually. |
[4120.98 --> 4125.12] That question came from a chat between me and Stephen, and we were just messing around a little bit. |
[4125.16 --> 4127.34] So, I was actually the one that asked that question to Stephen. |
[4127.82 --> 4128.32] I see. |
[4128.98 --> 4130.14] That's the story there. |
[4130.14 --> 4135.90] Yeah, he has a funny habit of dropping my name off and then posting our conversations, which I'd love to read on Twitter. |
[4136.00 --> 4136.38] He's great. |
[4137.96 --> 4139.40] Okay, so what did he answer? |
[4140.64 --> 4141.78] What do you ask if that? |
[4141.92 --> 4142.50] He just didn't. |
[4143.74 --> 4148.46] Yeah, so SIGStore is an open source project that's part of the Linux Foundation. |
[4148.94 --> 4154.14] It's not like a lot of traditional open source projects because there's a bunch of awesome code on GitHub and the community. |
[4154.14 --> 4161.38] But it also has some production infrastructure that that community is operating as a public benefit for the rest of the open source world. |
[4161.38 --> 4163.22] So, there's a bunch of code, which is awesome. |
[4163.32 --> 4163.80] You can fork it. |
[4163.86 --> 4164.58] You can contribute to it. |
[4164.62 --> 4170.16] But we also maintain a running copy of that code for people to use day-to-day and use in production. |
[4170.16 --> 4172.22] So, it's a couple different components. |
[4172.44 --> 4179.34] But overall, the goal of the SIGStore project is to make it easy and free to sign and verify open source software. |
[4179.82 --> 4181.90] We were heavily inspired by the Let's Encrypt model. |
[4182.02 --> 4186.62] So, if you're familiar with Let's Encrypt, what Let's Encrypt did operating a free certificate authority for web browsers. |
[4187.16 --> 4191.66] They made it so all of the web traffic became encrypted over a couple of years. |
[4191.66 --> 4198.92] CS have been around since the early 90s, but we just weren't seeing much movement in the percentage of web traffic that was encrypted. |
[4199.12 --> 4203.96] All the websites still had that red X at the top years and years ago, if you remember what it was like before Let's Encrypt. |
[4204.24 --> 4209.02] And then they solved the problem by making it free, easy, and automated to do it. |
[4209.12 --> 4213.84] So, now with one line in your Kubernetes AMLs now, you can just get free certificates for everything. |
[4214.40 --> 4221.18] And not overnight because a ton of hard work went in from the Let's Encrypt people compared to the overall timeline the internet's been around. |
[4221.18 --> 4223.80] The shift was immediate almost. |
[4224.24 --> 4226.98] So, we tried to do the same thing for open source software. |
[4227.82 --> 4229.72] How is this different from PGP? |
[4229.90 --> 4230.94] Yeah, that's a great question. |
[4231.20 --> 4232.68] So, PGP has been around for a while. |
[4232.92 --> 4237.28] PGP is a bunch of open source standards for cryptographic operations. |
[4237.60 --> 4245.96] So, this includes things like signing, verification, but also things like encryption of files, of messages, of all of these different things. |
[4246.34 --> 4249.82] So, PGP is kind of like a huge cryptographic kitchen sink. |
[4249.82 --> 4256.42] And it also provides some basic primitives for kind of PKI and key distribution and things like that that are pretty opinionated. |
[4256.70 --> 4265.94] If you've ever heard of like key signing parties and the PGP web of trust and stuff like that, it's a really cool, really elegant model that just unfortunately hasn't caught on too much today. |
[4265.94 --> 4268.48] So, SIGStore takes a slightly different approach. |
[4268.74 --> 4271.96] We use some different encryption standards, some slightly more modern ones. |
[4272.30 --> 4278.96] And particularly, we really rely on things like transparency logs, which kind of weren't really around back when PGP got started. |
[4279.08 --> 4284.42] They've really taken off across the browser ecosystem in probably the last decade. |
[4284.42 --> 4286.54] I think it hasn't been quite that long. |
[4286.66 --> 4288.24] But they have a lot of benefits. |
[4288.50 --> 4290.16] More PGP is completely decentralized. |
[4290.78 --> 4292.64] Transparency logs are slightly more centralized. |
[4293.26 --> 4297.60] But they provide some cool guarantees where there's a central operator, but you don't actually have to trust them. |
[4297.94 --> 4300.10] So, you get a lot of the benefits of both worlds. |
[4300.28 --> 4302.14] Somebody can run a service for you, which is easy. |
[4302.26 --> 4303.02] Everybody can find it. |
[4303.08 --> 4303.82] Everybody can use it. |
[4304.06 --> 4305.66] But you don't actually have to trust that operator. |
[4305.66 --> 4307.88] The only thing you have to trust is if they'll keep the thing running. |
[4308.32 --> 4314.78] And people can make backups and mirrors, but they can't tamper with that log, which eliminates a lot of the problems with centralized infrastructure. |
[4315.38 --> 4315.42] Okay. |
[4315.68 --> 4321.44] So, one of the things that I always use PGP for is signing my Git commits. |
[4321.70 --> 4321.80] Right. |
[4321.94 --> 4329.60] So, I'm wondering what else should I be signing and what should I be using from the SIGStore ecosystem to sign things? |
[4329.88 --> 4330.08] Yeah. |
[4330.18 --> 4332.54] So, signing Git commits is a pretty important topic. |
[4332.54 --> 4339.50] Like, there's like the git commit dash capital S flag, you know, which uses your PGP key ring, which is set up in your computer to sign those commits. |
[4340.24 --> 4342.80] That integration is actually baked pretty heavily into Git. |
[4342.98 --> 4345.34] So, there's, you know, dozens of different ways to sign things. |
[4345.46 --> 4346.60] SIGStore isn't the only way either. |
[4346.82 --> 4349.42] But Git is pretty coupled to PGP today. |
[4349.74 --> 4351.24] There's actually a bunch of ongoing work. |
[4351.24 --> 4357.44] Some of the Git core maintainers and some other contributors to start refactoring that and making it so that Git can use other techniques to sign things. |
[4357.44 --> 4362.54] And so, we're helping with that work to hopefully make SIGStore also kind of like a first-class citizen in the Git signing world. |
[4363.38 --> 4365.46] But separately, you know, you want to sign everything. |
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