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[721.90 --> 722.10] Okay. |
[722.20 --> 723.54] ARM 64 and so on. |
[723.66 --> 723.76] Yeah. |
[724.04 --> 724.20] Right. |
[724.74 --> 728.28] MIPS, some of the variations are not, but most of them, yes. |
[728.56 --> 735.16] The ones that are not out of the box is MIPS 64P32 and MIPS 64P32LE. |
[735.76 --> 735.98] Okay. |
[736.18 --> 739.94] So yeah, overall, these are probably architectures that most people don't care about. |
[740.36 --> 744.60] So I don't think this is a big fault on the part of the Go language. |
[744.60 --> 751.34] What I will say, though, is that as far as I'm concerned, C is already a multi-platform language as it is. |
[751.70 --> 754.66] And if other languages provide this as well, then good for them. |
[754.76 --> 756.30] But to me, it's not something groundbreaking. |
[757.06 --> 757.76] Yeah, that's fair. |
[758.50 --> 764.90] Lots of DevOps people do love that feature that you don't need to do much to support, to ship everything to everyone. |
[765.10 --> 765.54] Yeah. |
[765.54 --> 766.88] In your framework architecture. |
[766.88 --> 771.84] That aspect is pretty important and also very appreciated by malware authors. |
[772.30 --> 782.66] It's the fact that, yeah, when you write some program in C, then you might have modules that are distributed in the form of a DLL file in Windows or .so shared object on Linux and so on. |
[783.36 --> 790.00] And then you end up with a program, an executable file, and then several object libraries that come with it. |
[790.00 --> 793.90] And then when you want to distribute it, you have to send this big archive that contains many files. |
[794.22 --> 797.66] I would agree that when it comes to Go language, you end up with a single binary. |
[798.36 --> 799.98] And that's pretty useful, right? |
[800.26 --> 807.02] Especially in the context where you don't have control over the client, unquote, or victim's machine. |
[807.50 --> 816.48] Then in that case, then, of course, just having to send an executable and knowing that it is self-contained and going to work everywhere all the time is going to be a big advantage. |
[816.48 --> 819.92] And there are ways to do this in C, C++, and so on. |
[820.54 --> 826.70] But it will require some work, which, agreed, is not required when you're using Go. |
[826.82 --> 828.88] So this is one point for Go, I would say. |
[829.38 --> 842.70] Another is the, tell me what you think, is the concept of modules, where it has this file that says what are all the dependencies and what version specifically is used where, in case you're using some package of an older version and whatnot. |
[842.70 --> 855.34] So, given that this is all kind of compiled into a module and it's being sent out as one, does this provide any value for a hacker or for a security researcher? |
[855.34 --> 860.00] Well, for a security researcher or a hacker, I'm not exactly sure. |
[860.18 --> 871.40] I mean, as far as developers go, it prevents you from falling into this pit hole of dependency hell where, you know, this is stuff I actually experienced last week while working on a Python project. |
[871.66 --> 876.16] I updated all my packages and some of them were not compatible with each other. |
[876.22 --> 880.42] And my whole project just broke down in production, which is always fun. |
[880.42 --> 886.96] So, this is something I could have prevented by just fixing the version numbers, which is what you're supposed to be doing. |
[887.44 --> 890.88] But overall, like having this mechanism is kind of a good thing. |
[891.18 --> 898.16] When it comes to security, making sure that hackers are able to compile their thing is really not something we worry about too much. |
[898.70 --> 905.46] What we do worry about is the fact that when you end up with a single binary that contains everything, it's kind of an issue for reverse engineers. |
[905.46 --> 916.02] Like when you compare this to a C program or C++ program that has some various DLLs, then the different files already represent some sort of separation between the code, right? |
[916.08 --> 925.48] DLLs might or might not have a relevant name, but at the end of the day, you know that they're going to be split according to some form of functionality, right? |
[925.56 --> 931.94] This type of code is going to go in this DLL, like the main intelligence of the program will go in the main executables and so on. |
[931.94 --> 939.80] So, when you have those big malware platforms that you have to work on, then having several files is actually a pretty good thing for us. |
[940.18 --> 952.42] When you have a big Go binary that is 5 to 10 megabytes big, and then you have to just dive in there and try to find out where the interesting code is located, it's a good thing. |
[952.42 --> 958.36] You know where the interesting code, which is the library code is, that's something that the tools can recognize pretty well. |
[958.74 --> 962.54] But still, you just still have this big program that contains everything. |
[963.12 --> 973.92] And it's just much easier if you already have this kind of separation where you can already focus on some specific functionality, even though you haven't been able to dig into the whole project. |
[973.92 --> 982.02] So, in that sense, I would say that this feature is pretty useful for the offensive side, I would say. |
[982.44 --> 986.38] I wonder if there's any particular feature that is good for the defensive side. |
[986.56 --> 988.86] But I'll keep asking questions until we find something. |
[988.98 --> 989.98] Or do you have one in mind? |
[989.98 --> 1009.56] I do have one in mind, like the best and I think one of the strongest selling points of Go over C and C++ and all those unmanaged languages is going to be that when you write programs in Go, as a developer, I mean, you know that you're never going to have any problems with memory corruption, buffe... |
[1009.62 --> 1016.16] I would be very surprised if the Go language would allow you to read outside the bounds of an array and that kind of stuff. |
[1016.16 --> 1019.26] So, all this is already taken into account for you. |
[1019.80 --> 1024.48] And it's not going to make my personal daily job as a reverse engineer easier. |
[1024.70 --> 1031.94] But what it's going to provide is that, by default, people will have a much harder time shooting themselves in the foot. |
[1032.48 --> 1039.28] And this is a good thing overall because it means that if I download an application that was written by someone else in Go language, |
[1039.28 --> 1053.60] and I don't have to worry as much about the code quality because I know that the language is going to provide a number of guarantees and that will make sure that at least a number of vulnerabilities are not going to affect me ever. |
[1053.60 --> 1059.06] This is true as a whole for the whole industry, even outside security. |
[1059.74 --> 1067.14] If programs are written in Go language, like FTP server or email server or whatever, if such programs are written in Go language, |
[1067.24 --> 1070.36] then we know that at least we won't have to worry about buffer overflows. |
[1070.66 --> 1081.38] And this means less weekends spent in incident response engagements because some customers didn't patch their program or because there was some vulnerability discovered as a zero day |
[1081.38 --> 1089.72] and that's being exploited in the wild for an application that has some buffer overflow vulnerability and that is just available widely on the Internet. |
[1089.72 --> 1100.08] So overall, for defenders, less vulnerabilities and less ways for developers to make tragic, tragic mistakes is always going to be a good thing. |
[1100.20 --> 1108.62] And I think this, in fact, overshadows any advantage that the attackers are gaining over us on the personal level with the reverse engineers. |
[1108.80 --> 1110.48] That is a very interesting point. |
[1110.48 --> 1117.76] I guess it would be interesting to see if overall Go code is more secure, however you would measure that. |
[1117.98 --> 1120.06] It's probably going to be interesting to see how to do that. |
[1120.62 --> 1124.92] Well, having precise metrics is always going to be difficult. |
[1125.08 --> 1132.78] But if you compare CVE number quantities for projects written in Go language and for projects written in C, |
[1132.78 --> 1150.02] then I think it's very likely that you would find that programs written in memory unmanaged languages like C++ and the like are always going to have more bugs just because, like, by default, there are more opportunities to shoot yourself in the foot. |
[1150.02 --> 1161.58] So if you take the developers with equivalent skill and for one of them, some bugs are just unavailable and for the other one, then you have twice as much mistakes that you can make. |
[1161.58 --> 1169.00] It feels very obvious to me that no matter how, like, if the developers have the same level of skill, |
[1169.36 --> 1174.40] then the person using the unsafe language is always going to make more mistakes. |
[1174.40 --> 1188.78] Hey, friends. |
[1188.90 --> 1194.56] This episode is brought to you by my friends and potentially your friends, too, at FireHydrant. |
[1194.74 --> 1198.66] And I'm here with Robert Ross, founder and CEO of FireHydrant. |
[1198.66 --> 1202.62] And Robert, there are several options out there for incident management. |
[1202.96 --> 1205.34] But what is it that makes FireHydrant different? |
[1205.88 --> 1211.70] The reason that we think that FireHydrant is is on to something is because we're meeting companies really where they are. |
[1211.96 --> 1218.94] We face the same problems that every company in the industry that is building and releasing software is also facing. |
[1218.94 --> 1232.66] So we want people to be able to sign up for FireHydrant and immediately be able to kick off an incident using the best practices that we've built and we've experienced and have gathered through the other amazing customers that use our tool. |
[1232.82 --> 1234.92] It really is a very quick time to value. |
[1235.18 --> 1241.24] And we want people to have a long jump from where they are to where they want to be in incident management. |
[1241.24 --> 1242.72] I love it. Thank you, Robert. |
[1243.00 --> 1248.12] Small teams up to 10 people can get started for free with all FireHydrant features included. |
[1248.24 --> 1249.98] There's no credit card required to sign up. |
[1250.32 --> 1252.00] They are making it too easy to get started. |
[1252.20 --> 1254.24] So check them out at FireHydrant.com. |
[1255.02 --> 1257.50] Again, FireHydrant.com. |
[1271.24 --> 1280.20] Have you ever seen malware in COBOL? |
[1280.72 --> 1281.78] I haven't, actually. |
[1282.30 --> 1285.96] I wonder how would you evaluate that and the more safer and the less safe side. |
[1286.56 --> 1287.50] Now that you say all that. |
[1287.86 --> 1289.16] I actually have no idea. |
[1289.32 --> 1291.34] Like, COBOL is one of those languages that I know of. |
[1291.70 --> 1299.98] I know that if you want to work in banks and be paid the big bucks, then you should definitely learn COBOL because all the former COBOL developers, |
[1299.98 --> 1301.46] they died of old age by now. |
[1301.66 --> 1303.98] So, you know, they are kind of hard to find. |
[1304.88 --> 1311.68] Beyond this, never in my life have I heard about, or like never in the, maybe the last 10 years have I heard about malware written in COBOL. |
[1311.92 --> 1321.66] If I were to find one, then it would be a pretty cool blog article, but it would probably be a miserable week for me because then I would have to probably learn the language and figure out how it works. |
[1322.26 --> 1327.32] Although, like, to be fair, this week, I actually had to reverse engineer a program that was written in Pascal. |
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