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[3514.46 --> 3519.26] Because you're not going to be able to retire it if you don't already have a plan for how to do it. |
[3519.70 --> 3521.58] I think that's just like fact at this point. |
[3521.66 --> 3524.82] Like I've never seen anywhere that's been able to successfully retire something. |
[3524.82 --> 3540.76] Either it's like you've been able to successfully do it because you had a plan or you were able to successfully do it because you just threw engineering bodies at the problem and basically said all other work halts until we finished this movement and this migration, which is incredibly difficult. |
[3540.76 --> 3554.92] And really requires buy-in of, you know, all the way up to the CTO level at the end of the day and probably the CEO level to really say, no, we're actually going to, no matter what, throw as many bodies as is required to get rid of this thing. |
[3555.24 --> 3558.12] Either you have to do that or you have to have a good plan from the beginning of how you're going to do it. |
[3558.38 --> 3559.48] And most of the time we don't have plans. |
[3559.54 --> 3560.90] So we're really saying the latter. |
[3561.08 --> 3569.06] And if you're not going to go spend that political capital to buy into that, then just don't rewrite the thing and really sit down and think about like what is frustrating you about this code base. |
[3569.06 --> 3577.34] Because I would say for most of the code bases, except for the ones, you know, once again, written maybe in COBOL or in some other really old language that we don't want to deal with anymore. |
[3577.50 --> 3581.54] For the most part, especially if you're like, if it's a Go code base and you're like, I want to rewrite this. |
[3581.64 --> 3582.52] Just stop. |
[3582.78 --> 3584.84] Just stop and be like, what's bothering me about this? |
[3584.88 --> 3586.02] And then go fix those things. |
[3586.48 --> 3594.92] That will take tremendously less time and you will be happier with the results because now you will have the code base you wanted without the code base you didn't. |
[3595.02 --> 3599.00] You don't have this legacy code base that someone gets stuck maintaining until your new thing. |
[3599.06 --> 3604.20] It actually does what you promised it would do, which also will take a lot longer than you think it's going to take. |
[3604.64 --> 3605.86] The rewrite always takes longer. |
[3605.94 --> 3616.06] And if you can't shut down the new thing, the old thing until the rewrite is done, well, now someone has to keep fixing bugs and keep that old thing operable until the new thing is ready to go in full capacity. |
[3616.56 --> 3620.68] So if you really don't want to work on the old thing anymore, just fix the old thing in place. |
[3620.68 --> 3621.74] You know how it is. |
[3621.78 --> 3627.70] Even if everyone is agreeing to not touch the old thing anymore, there will always have new feature. |
[3627.80 --> 3631.74] There will always have bug fixes that you will need to replicate on the new system. |
[3631.84 --> 3632.94] It's extremely difficult. |
[3633.38 --> 3639.68] Don't assume that you will not have to add something new to the old system until the old system is completely off. |
[3639.68 --> 3651.48] So if your new thing is I'm going to go build something new and it's going to take me two and a half years to build it, assume that you have to keep adding stuff to the old thing until that two and a half year mark hits and you actually get to turn that old thing off. |
[3651.86 --> 3656.98] Moral of the story is Greenfield rewrites are not always the right direction to go. |
[3656.98 --> 3663.64] You need to sit, take some time, think it through, identify the core issues, and then get really good. |
[3663.90 --> 3668.92] Nod to your wonderful series, Chris, at maintaining your software and your technology. |
[3669.58 --> 3677.10] Yeah, I think I have participated in one successful Greenfield rewrite in my 20-year career. |
[3677.40 --> 3678.32] And where was that, John? |
[3678.52 --> 3679.46] That is with us. |
[3680.00 --> 3681.40] And who was your product manager? |
[3681.50 --> 3682.46] That is with the Times. |
[3682.46 --> 3683.32] Yep, that is. |
[3683.32 --> 3692.24] I also have a side note about the term Greenfield, which I find hilarious because if you want to have an actual Greenfield, someone has to maintain that. |
[3692.52 --> 3694.54] Like if you go into nature, you don't find a lot of Greenfield. |
[3694.58 --> 3698.22] You find a lot of mud pits and stuff and a lot of overgrown grass and stuff. |
[3698.28 --> 3699.38] But a real Greenfield? |
[3699.50 --> 3701.90] Now you got to have like good lawn equipment, good agriculture. |
[3702.34 --> 3705.72] It takes a lot of work, a lot of maintenance to have a Greenfield. |
[3705.88 --> 3708.72] And people are just like, we're just going to start with a Greenfield. |
[3708.72 --> 3711.70] It's like you're going to start with something that's well-maintained and well-manucured. |
[3711.70 --> 3716.60] Okay, so it's like we should really call it like mud pit like development. |
[3716.92 --> 3718.32] And then people are probably... |
[3718.32 --> 3721.28] The grass is always greener on the other side. |
[3721.40 --> 3725.76] Because the other person actually maintains their lawn unlike you, right? |
[3725.90 --> 3728.62] Their grass is cleaner because they take care of it. |
[3728.80 --> 3735.34] You go over there, it might be green for a little bit, but then your old grass is going to be greener because that person maintains it now. |
[3735.72 --> 3736.82] So you're always going to want to... |
[3736.82 --> 3740.08] It's like, no, no, just learn how to maintain your grass and then you'll have a really green lawn. |
[3740.44 --> 3741.54] And also don't envy your neighbor. |
[3741.54 --> 3742.58] There's lots of lessons in here. |
[3742.60 --> 3744.28] I can take this analogy all day long. |
[3744.44 --> 3744.88] You know, this is... |
[3744.88 --> 3747.28] I feel like we're getting into the Canterbury Tales here. |
[3747.84 --> 3750.58] This is what happens when you have two writers on a podcast, Angelica. |
[3750.78 --> 3751.18] I know. |
[3751.24 --> 3752.24] We just feed off each other. |
[3752.76 --> 3755.42] Don't even get me started on Shakespeare in reference. |
[3756.06 --> 3757.38] We'll be here all night. |
[3758.14 --> 3760.54] To rewrite or not to rewrite, that is the question. |
[3762.56 --> 3764.28] Whether it is greener or the other side. |
[3764.34 --> 3765.18] Okay, I'm going to stop now. |
[3765.70 --> 3766.76] I could go on for days. |
[3766.76 --> 3767.24] Great. |
[3767.24 --> 3767.48] Great. |
[3767.80 --> 3769.26] Well, I... |
[3769.26 --> 3775.16] Regrettably, we have to move on to our next section because I want to hear your unpopular |
[3775.16 --> 3775.80] opinions. |
[3775.80 --> 3778.70] But it's been an absolute pleasure chatting about Legacy Code. |
[3778.88 --> 3781.42] And I'm sure myself and Chris have many an episode. |
[3781.80 --> 3783.96] As a follow-up, we now will like to do. |
[3784.50 --> 3787.24] This maintenance miniseries is becoming a maintenance series. |
[3787.68 --> 3788.68] It's just kind of expanding. |
[3788.92 --> 3789.20] Yes. |
[3789.32 --> 3793.30] I feel like we should stop calling it mini and just go with, this is a series. |
[3793.86 --> 3794.82] Maintenance is important. |
[3795.44 --> 3795.98] It's a thing. |
[3796.30 --> 3798.16] We should make its own little theme tune. |
[3798.26 --> 3799.08] I'm ready, Chris. |
[3799.12 --> 3800.28] Let's whip out the keyboard. |
[3800.46 --> 3802.90] I'll do the vocals and I'll like rap a little bit. |
[3802.94 --> 3803.42] It'll be great. |
[3803.54 --> 3804.08] A new jingle. |
[3804.20 --> 3805.24] We'll make that a note for Jared. |
[3805.46 --> 3807.36] Hey, Jared, we need a jingle for the maintenance series. |
[3808.16 --> 3808.40] Yeah. |
[3808.84 --> 3812.62] And on the topic of jingles, here's our unpopular opinion one. |
[3812.94 --> 3813.88] Smooth transition. |
[3813.88 --> 3819.08] Unpopular opinion. |
[3819.34 --> 3820.26] You want to. |
[3820.30 --> 3822.04] I actually think she'd probably leave. |
[3825.16 --> 3826.92] Unpopular opinion. |
[3830.20 --> 3837.62] So for all you lovelies who have not heard Go Time Unpopular Opinions before, this is |
[3837.62 --> 3843.34] where we ask our lovely guests and also Chris, if we have time, for an unpopular opinion. |
[3843.34 --> 3845.16] It does not need to be about Go. |
[3845.28 --> 3846.72] It does not need to be about technology. |
[3846.90 --> 3849.78] It can be about your aunt's favorite sock collection. |
[3850.04 --> 3851.40] It can be about China dolls. |
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