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• Predictions on the increasing importance of machine learning skills in programming careers |
• Copilot's ease of use and limitations |
• Prompt engineering as a skill for working with AI tools like Copilot |
• The importance of communication skills in working with AI augmentation tools |
• The need for developers to have English language proficiency to effectively communicate with AI models |
• Alexey Palazhchenko's unpopular opinion about generics in Go, suggesting they were rushed and haven't solved the problems he wanted them to solve |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Isn't that symbolic, that at the episode about AI we will have some issues with tech and computers and so on? ...just to remind who really is the boss... So today we promised you two hosts, but it's actually a one-on-one conversation, and I'm very excited to invite and introduce my guest today,... |
He is one of the organizers of the Russian Go community meetups and GopherCon Russia, and he even started the Go podcast called Golang Show in the past, before Go Time. Maybe you can tell us where does that live these days, or why not continue...? |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** It's hard for me to say, we basically just -- everyone moved on. Several people changed work, several people changed phase, it becomes scattered |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** They changed their programming language... |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** No, most of them not. But a few of them moved to management, so... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Okay. That technically is changing your programming language, right? You basically start programming in JIRA... |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Yeah, and email up... \[laughter\] It's a funny thing that Go Time was originally called Go Show, but we asked the organizers to change the name, because otherwise it would be too close. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** \[laughs\] Interesting. I actually did not know that. That's fun. |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Yeah. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Well, these days you work for all two weeks as a CTO of FerretDB project, originally announced as MangoDB, as many people in the community loved, including myself... And we're even excited to have you in January talk about MangoDB at the Go Usergroup of Berlin. |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Yeah. But I will be talking about FerretDB, because if I continue to use this name, MangoDB, we will be sued by MongoDB. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** I'm sorry... |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** \[04:07\] They don't like that we use a name too close to the trademark. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** That is fair, that is fair. How did you choose FerretDB? |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Well, so we had a list of possible names, and we also had 20 different names of different bungus, but in the end we decided to use Ferret. As a fun, we say that it doesn't share a single letter with Mango, so no chance to sue us, at all. We shall be fine. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** \[laughs\] That is an interesting turn of events, I guess... So Alexey, how did you start using Go? |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Yeah, so the funniest story is that I actually started using Go back at Microsoft; that was way before Microsoft was cool again. Many years ago I worked in a small startup called Qik, which was doing video calls. That was before FaceTime. Then when FaceTime was announced, everyone wanted FaceTi... |
Then a year and a half later we were bought by Skype, and our small startup, which was like 50 people, started being integrated into Skype, which was 1,000 back at that time... And we were aligning the roadmaps, trying to understand what we'll build together, and several months later Skype was bought by Microsoft, and ... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** You completed a circle. \[laughs\] |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** They started to align their roadmaps, and they basically forgot about us. This was a strange satellite office somewhere in Moscow; no one knew what they were doing at all. So at some point we had no work to do. We were still going to office, we were getting paid, but we didn't have any real wor... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** And as a real developer, you had to complain when you had nothing to program. |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Yeah. But again, that was Microsoft. We don't even know where to complain. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** \[laughs\] It makes sense. |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** For example, we did not receive new computers and we were using Macs, but you can't access Microsoft resources with Macs, for example, back then. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Okay... \[laughs\] |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Okay, so we decided to spend this time to sharpen our skills, trying something new... So we decided to make a multiplayer game of Go, of this board game... So we made one part of the settle in Erlang language, and we started working on a mobile client in C\#... And then I wrote the backend part... |
When I had a chance, I left Microsoft; basically, when my options waisted I started my own company, and we started using Go. That was Go 1.0 already. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Wow. |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** And then left that company... And basically - yes, doing Go signs are 16 for fun and in-production signs, 16.0. So a long time ago. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Okay. Wow. That is a funny turn of events. So did you choose to write the backend in Go because it was the Go game, or because you actually read about it somewhere? |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** It was completely random. I mean, I read about Go back when it was announced; back then I had just switched from C++ to Ruby language. I made the jump. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** That is a jump, for sure. |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** \[08:13\] Yeah. Then Go was completely random, but I actually liked it a lot. So I was programming in C++, and Ruby, and Python... and in pipe I was writing mostly with twisted framework with all those callbacks, and I immediately liked goroutines, and also the fact that the language is compile... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Interesting. Okay... So we're here to talk about AI-driven development. So when we say that, AI-driven development, what do you envision? What would development with AI be looking like in the future? |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Yes, that would be something futuristic... You know, this dream of you having isolated compliance and you just draw arrows between then and the AI builds everything for you, you just have to -- you can just draw diagrams on the whiteboard and all the magic appears. I don't think we'll ever reac... |
Actually, I would say that for me, the best solution would be something what GitHub Copilot already provides, maybe with a different interface. But the whole idea is that you have another someone, or something, in that case looking over code, suggesting and giving you tips. Basically, advanced ED but with some smarts a... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** When you were saying that drawing on the walls with the diagrams and then it completes for you, I was thinking of how when you type to some translator tool like DeepL that it automatically translates on the go. Just imagine, you're writing some arrows and it already writes the code and changes ... |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Yes. But also, that would be very fun. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** \[laughs\] Change all the code. It will be like in the Matrix; this is why the code is just running very fast on the screen, because it keeps changing. |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Well, maybe that's why they made a new movie. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** That makes sense. All the dots are connecting... Yeah, so you say that you envision AI-driven development as something that is like an augmentation to the IDE, pretty much? |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Yeah, I would say that's a good way to describe it. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** So the IDE handles things like your code, but it also handles your configurations, right? And AI is good in generating code, and it seems like it makes a lot of sense when it does that, but in configuration files whenever it does that it's usually like -- it generates a correct SSH key format-w... |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Yeah, so \[unintelligible 00:11:00.01\] may think that we are joking but that's actually a term that Copilot can do that; it can generate an SSH key for you. Unfortunately, most likely it will be able to be used by someone else, but maybe that would be a feature for you. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** \[laughs\] An easy way to hack into somebody else's code. |
**Alexey Palazhchenko:** Yeah. You just don't know who you're going to hack, but you're going to hack anyway. You know, maybe that Copilot discovers look for a security hold it will bascially try anything that sticks, and now we have it. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Just throwing code at the AI. |
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