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**Matt Holt:** Yeah. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Mohammed, how about you? |
**Mohammed S. Al Sahaf:** Alright... Mine is Microsoft Excel is a net negative in this world. |
**Jon Calhoun:** No caveats at all. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** \[laughs\] |
**Jon Calhoun:** Can you elaborate? |
**Mohammed S. Al Sahaf:** I've seen coworkers spending countless hours trying to figure out some weird issue Excel is doing, and it's just a waste of time. When I come around to help them, what I do is I take their Excel file, convert it to CSV somehow, run it through SQLite and do whatever they need to do, generate wh... |
**Matt Holt:** So you're talking about spreadsheets in general? |
**Mohammed S. Al Sahaf:** Yeah. Spreadsheets in general. |
**Matt Holt:** So like Google Sheets, yeah? |
**Mohammed S. Al Sahaf:** \[unintelligible 00:42:55.03\] please, reach out for SharePoint, use whatever. There are tons of alternatives. |
**Matt Holt:** I mostly agree, I think, so... |
**Jon Calhoun:** I mostly agree, but then... I guess the hard part there - and like Mohammed is saying, we need to educate people on using SQL, which I think would be great if people understood basic ways to do queries, or just simple ways to automate things... It'd be great to see a generation of kids growing up knowi... |
I've definitely seen people sit on a spreadsheet, doing things that -- manually typing in, that you should not be manually typing in that stuff, or trying to do what you're doing. But on the other side, I think there's just a whole generation of people working that are just not gonna learn something new. And that puts ... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** It feels like Copilot just writes SQL for you. |
**Jon Calhoun:** I don't know if I'd trust -- you're talking about the AI code stuff? |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** The GitHub autocomplete thing, yeah. |
**Jon Calhoun:** \[44:00\] I don't know if I'd trust that fully to write all my queries, but... That'd be interesting to try though. It's hard for me too, because I use spreadsheets for simple stuff all the time, where I just don't wanna code, and it's just real quick to throw something -- now, granted, most of my spre... |
**Matt Holt:** I'm kind of the same way. I use it like a disposable calculator, simple stuff... If I have to start looking up formulas, I'm switching to SQLite. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Well, we also have a rank of the top three unpopular opinions, and top three unpopular unpopular opinions, which is kind of popular opinions... So it looks like we have a candidate for each from this episode. |
**Matt Holt:** It's fun. |
**Jon Calhoun:** So Matt, I have another question for you... |
**Matt Holt:** Oh, no... |
**Jon Calhoun:** How often do you get grief over using the init function for your modules, or for your extensions? |
**Matt Holt:** More than once... |
**Jon Calhoun:** More than once? \[laughs\] |
**Matt Holt:** The counter-argument from those people is that the importing package, so the Caddy main should be calling not only importing, but also calling the register module function. I don't really see the point in that though. I feel like if you're importing it, you want to plug it in. |
**Jon Calhoun:** I'm not saying one thing one way or the other, I just -- I laugh that you go to the documentation and the third line in \[unintelligible 00:45:15.24\] and I'm like "I feel like this right here has gotta lead to a lot of hatemail of some sort..." Although -- I mean, given your use case, I personally don... |
**Matt Holt:** I mean, it's either the two lines of code that you add to - well, more than that; you'd have to import the package and then you'd have to know all the module types in that package and call register module yourself. I don't think that's necessary. I think if you're using a package that has N number of mod... |
I think Caddy has some other unpopular design decisions, but I still stand by for the most part, some of them especially. Some people still don't love the JSON thing, but the JSON thing is wonderful, and you don't have to use it. |
**Jon Calhoun:** So we can just make a list of unpopular Caddy opinions...? |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** \[laughs\] |
**Matt Holt:** Yeah - to be fair, the number of unpopular Caddy opinions has come down recently. Since Caddy 2, I think Caddy has been a little more on the popular side overall. There's definitely still some debates... And some things I don't think there are good answers to, but come at me. We'll see. We can talk about... |
**Jon Calhoun:** I think what you're saying is -- to me at least, I view what you're doing as you're trying to choose the lesser of two evils... Essentially, of ways to approach a problem, and it is a tough one, with the extension. Because making an application -- I don't think many people have written software that ne... |
**Matt Holt:** Yeah. |
**Jon Calhoun:** I think Mark Bates has done it with Buffalo stuff before, but that's one of the few people I know that's even gone into that realm at all. Most projects I just don't think support it. They'd just be like "These are the modules we have. If you want others, good luck." |
**Matt Holt:** \[47:07\] Yeah. I mean, sometimes there is still some debate over Caddy's module design in terms of the fact that they have to be compiled in... Some people kind of hate that. But a lot of people love it, and it has a lot of advantages. |
**Jon Calhoun:** What would the alternative be? Having like a second server running that it communicates with? |
**Matt Holt:** Yeah, so there's a couple options... You could do some sort of RPC thing, or interprocess communication, so IPC... But that has performance penalties, because you're going through the kernel. You can embed a scripting language, and have some sort of interpreter. There's a few Go interpreters out there, o... |
**Jon Calhoun:** Yeah, I don't think that's an easy one to come up with a perfect solution for, I guess. |
**Matt Holt:** There isn't one, but it's a pretty good one. |
**Jon Calhoun:** Because I'm thinking of like VS Code, where every extension is JavaScript, but then there's the fact that -- it's not the JavaScript that's terribly inefficient or anything, but it's definitely not going to be as performant as other languages, in most cases. So you have that limitation when you're sett... |
VS Code doesn't seem to have it quite as bad, but I know with Atom that was one of the issues, with that editor - because it was JavaScript, there were definitely times where coming from like Sublime Text it felt slower... |
**Matt Holt:** Yeah. |
**Jon Calhoun:** And I think part of that was because they wanted something extensible, and Sublime Text - it was extensible, but it was Python, and it was a little bit harder to do, if I recall correctly. |
**Matt Holt:** There is one more really maybe unpopular decision that I'm lukewarm about, and that is that you can't set a global config in the Caddy file. You can't get one line of configuration there and have it apply to the whole config, to all your sites automatically. We have snippets, so you can put it in a snipp... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Cool. To finish, I'll say that the show notes have the links to extending Caddy, and also to the Caddy SSH extension by Mohammed... And we will also include the XKCD that you mentioned in the very beginning. |
Thanks everyone who joined, and listened, and responded in the chat, and thank you, Mohammed and Matt for joining. We wish everyone a good rest of your day, whatever time it is. |
• Discussion of tech horror stories |
• Guest Dee Kitchen discusses her career in scary things and her package bluemonday (an HTML sanitizer) |
• Guests discuss their preferences for salty vs sweet popcorn |
• Kris Brandow explains why he finds horror movies boring due to their predictable plots |
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