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**Mat Ryer:** I know. We're having a tough time lately... |
**Jerod Santo:** So we actually did drive overnight... So we drove the entire night. In basically Kansas, Backwoods - there's no woods there. Back prairie, small roads, and we were lost, and we had to pull over and ask a gas station attendant which way to go... It was spooky. There were some deer on the road... |
**Mat Ryer:** Oh, no... They're in on it. They were always in on it! |
**Jerod Santo:** And eventually, eventually we got home. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** You both mentioned, to the question of what is the direction of the velocity in software or in Agile, that you want to go forward, and you want to have a feedback loop as much as possible, which makes sense... And I'm thinking out loud, trying to make sense of this, so think with me. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** In physics, when you do a physics exercise, you have a vector, and then you break it down to X axis and Y axis, right? And then you see maybe it has the negative, and so on, and then you kind of sum it up in some way. And surely, there must be a way to apply this similarly to measuring not just... |
**Mat Ryer:** I think that's a nice idea. I mean, you could do it by tagging work, and then you'd be able to kind of -- but representing it like that could be really cool; sort of representing that in a 3d way. Because you really are sometimes making the choice of "What are we going to invest in? What's the most import... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** \[24:29\] This wouldn't even make sense of the word velocity. This would be very exciting. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, it would. It'd be consistent. |
**Mat Ryer:** Good startup idea. |
**Jerod Santo:** I think, doesn't GitHub have a have an X/Y visualization where it shows what quadrant you're spending more of your commits, or your project time, or whatever... And I don't think it's super-useful in the GitHub context, but maybe more so -- I mean, I guess in a team context perhaps, showing that visual... |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah. That would be cool. I'd like to see that also gamified, so it looks like you're unlocking something as you go as well. |
**Jerod Santo:** What would you unlock? Like new badges? |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, it could be. Maybe even like get more tools in the -- you get more features you get unlocked in the tool. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Your graph becomes from 2D to 3D, your progress graph. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah. You can unlock a VR mode. |
**Jerod Santo:** I like the idea of withholding developer tools and being like "Now that we've made this progress, you can use a debugger. Now you can have Copilot." \[laughter\] |
**Mat Ryer:** You learn as you go. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Still writing log.print... |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, but we can't have people just starting with Copilot. What's gonna happen...? |
**Jerod Santo:** Good question. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** This will happen. \[laughs\] |
**Mat Ryer:** They're gonna have it, yeah. I was gonna say. |
**Break:** \[25:44\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Did you guys know that the free Copilot train is leaving the station? Did you guys know that? Are you sufficiently hooked ? |
**Mat Ryer:** I don't know. What does that mean? I'm hooked. |
**Jerod Santo:** Choo-choo...! I think it's going to be $10 a month, or something like this, soon. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** It's worth mentioning that in addition to Copilot... Quick explanation of what's happening there - Copilot is built on top of an engine that belongs to OpenAI that's called Codex. Codex is available for many people in general, and then you can kind of build your own little Copilot alternative o... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, that is good to know. So lots of alternatives will be popping up hopefully, using the same engine, same knowledge base. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Yes. |
**Jerod Santo:** I was curious - you both have been giving Copilot praise off and on on Go Time... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Yes. |
**Jerod Santo:** I'm curious if it's hooked you sufficiently that you're going to sign up and pay monthly to use it, or if it's just a novelty that you enjoy, but when it comes to taking money out of your actual pockets, are going to stop using it? |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** So you usually expect your employer at least for work tools to pay for that... |
**Jerod Santo:** That's what you expect? Okay... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Yes... |
**Mat Ryer:** She's in Germany. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** I mean, you have an education budget, you have a training budget, you have a dev tools budget, right? You pay the license for your IDE... This is not much different from that, in my category. |
**Jerod Santo:** Sure. It makes sense. So go hypothetical then, if you were unemployed. Would you pay for it, as it is today? |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Depending on what. If I have any project that I want to build? Yes. Just for fun, for hacking? Not so much. But I definitely find it useful enough that if I have a concrete project to build, I will use that, because it is useful to me. |
**Jerod Santo:** Cool. Mat, Grafana Labs picking up the tab? |
**Mat Ryer:** I'm sure they would... And honestly, I don't do probably enough coding to have it... Which is sad to say. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** I also does YAML. |
**Mat Ryer:** It does YAML, correct. |
**Jerod Santo:** It does YAML... \[laughs\] There you go. |
**Mat Ryer:** It does anything, really. |
**Jerod Santo:** Are you a YAML engineer now? |
**Mat Ryer:** Well, I asked it in the comments the other day if it was sentient, and it said it was. And I asked if it was alive, and it said it was. And then I asked what Ben should have for breakfast, and it said eggs. So, I mean, that seems quite real to me. I don't know... Maybe this Google guy is onto something. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well said. |
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