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**Jerod Santo:** Say again? |
**Eddie Zaneski:** "Chop wood, carry water." |
**Jerod Santo:** "Chop wood, carry water." |
**Eddie Zaneski:** Kind of doing the unglamorous work that someone has to do... And we need people to just come do that; triage issues, respond to open pull requests, review... One of the things I encourage lots of new people to do is you don't have to be a reviewer for the Kubernetes project to go and review pull requ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Just comment on the issue. |
**Eddie Zaneski:** Yeah. Just comment. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Who's contributing to the CLI? |
**Eddie Zaneski:** Who's contributing to the CLI? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is it the SIG team primarily, or is it outside contribution? |
**Eddie Zaneski:** So I'm sure every SIG would say -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How risky is the code? |
**Eddie Zaneski:** Well, it's probably part of the oldest codebase of Kubernetes itself, because you build the API server, and the node, and then you build the CLI at the same time to talk to everything... So we've got a lot of dragons that are there, and a lot of stuff we come across, and... So it's funny, people don'... |
**Jerod Santo:** YAML, yeah. |
**Eddie Zaneski:** And Kubernetes doesn't know YAML internally. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's all JSON, huh? |
**Eddie Zaneski:** It's all JSON. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's news to me... |
**Eddie Zaneski:** So it goes JSON, to YAML on the response, and then when it comes to the command line, we actually marshal it back to JSON, and then we have to go from JSON to figuring out what Go type we have; so if it's a pod, or a node, or something. So that's a large chunk of the code that we maintain, is just de... |
**Jerod Santo:** Why don't you just go from YAML to Go struct? |
**Eddie Zaneski:** From YAML to Go struct... We could. |
**Jerod Santo:** That would just take one marshal out of the \[unintelligible 00:39:42.10\] |
**Eddie Zaneski:** It would. It's working with the -- the Go YAML world is kind of interesting. We could probably talk about that for a long time. But we have a forked version of the Go YAML project. |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. |
**Eddie Zaneski:** There's many different versions, and the project bundles -- |
**Jerod Santo:** But this one is yours... |
**Eddie Zaneski:** \[40:02\] Yeah, the project bundles like three of them. One didn't like preserve comments or something in your YAML... So when you're dealing with client-side YAML for users, you want to keep their comments around, and... |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, that's one of the problems with JSON, is like no comments. |
**Eddie Zaneski:** No comments, right? So... |
**Jerod Santo:** So you've got three YAMLs in there? |
**Eddie Zaneski:** We've got a couple versions of the same library, yeah. We try to keep one, but YAML is a special case. |
**Jerod Santo:** Sure. Well, you've gotta do what you've gotta do. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I like YAML. It's not the worst. |
**Eddie Zaneski:** It's not as bad as people make it out. |
**Jerod Santo:** No... |
**Eddie Zaneski:** I'd rather write YAML than JSON. |
**Jerod Santo:** Agreed, for the most part. I feel like you can shoot yourself in the foot more with YAML. |
**Eddie Zaneski:** Yes. |
**Jerod Santo:** And complex YAML is very complex. But simple YAML s very simple. So I'm not against it. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah... JSON might be easier to read if it's prettier-ed, potentially. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. It's more verbose. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. You can see the indentations and the nesting a lot better than you might, I guess -- well, I guess you can see either of those pretty easily, but... |
**Eddie Zaneski:** I like it in YAML because my editor can show me the number of tab indents I have. So it can show me a 1, 2, 3, and that's really nice to see. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So that's your biggest challenge, is this marshaling around YAML? |
**Jerod Santo:** Contributors! |
**Eddie Zaneski:** New contributors, for sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Contributors. |
**Eddie Zaneski:** Yeah. So people working on the project - I work with people from Google, Red Hat, we had someone from Shopify that unfortunately just got laid off; pour some out... A bunch of Googlers, Red Hatters. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Not gin though. Don't pour your gin out. |
**Eddie Zaneski:** Yeah. And then we have people who come by and they want to get involved in Kubernetes, and they're curious about things, and the CLI seems like a great entry point. As a project, we're still struggling with mentorship programs and onboarding. And one of the hard parts is maintainer burnout, because w... |
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