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**Adam Stacoviak:** This has been an effort in the making, because I know when we talked to Jessica, that was the plan, to get there. And you're saying now it's available. |
**Stormy Peters:** Yup. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. How has that changed things? Has the giving or supporting gotten easier? Has the amount increased? What are the stats behind this new feature being there for sponsors? |
**Stormy Peters:** Yeah, I think it's worth looking at before we were generally available; in just our beta program we already had like $30 million flow through the program, so obviously, there was a high demand for it... And we just GA-ed a couple weeks ago. So I don't have numbers, but I can tell you that there are n... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. Okay, can you speak to the excitement, then? I mean, there's no traction to compare -- |
**Stormy Peters:** Oh, there's traction. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What I mean by that is it's so new there's not a lot of details you can share here, because it's fresh. What's the response from those chomping at the bit to get access to this is? Is it a lot of companies desiring this? |
**Stormy Peters:** I think a lot of companies want to make sure the software they use is reliable, secure, and that they recognize that they use it, that it's kind of -- I think that people at companies want to make sure they're fair. I always say, companies aren't people, and they aren't motivated like people are. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. There's no emotion. |
**Stormy Peters:** Or there's no sense of give and take the same way people have it. Say I go out of town, and I ask my neighbor to like come feed the cat every day. And when I get back into town, I'm like "Oh, she did me a huge favor, so I'm gonna take her some apples from my apple trees." So I take apples over to her... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. They're profit-generating machines, so the people have to like step out of the norm in order to do that. But people do want to step out and do that. |
**Stormy Peters:** So we're trying to give them tools, like "Here's your dependencies. Here's the dependencies of your dependencies." |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay, so all that stuff exists now inside of -- is it like inside the Sponsors dashboard, or is it just inside of GitHub's, like... |
**Stormy Peters:** Various tools have it. So we can help you as Sponsors, we also have an OSPO dashboard for corporations, where they can see what they're using and what they're contributing to... |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. That's cool. So what's a typical give out of a corporation these days? |
**Stormy Peters:** Companies would also like to know that... We actually had one company that came and said, "I want to make sure that I don't look like I'm giving too little." And they were willing to give a couple hundred thousand dollars, but they were afraid it would look too little. So I think we need to establish... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. So that's still kind of playing out. We don't know what the norm is. |
**Stormy Peters:** We don't know. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[09:52\] The best indicator that has been the FOSS Contributor Fund, to some degree... And we just talked to Chad Witacre - the show's out there - as part of this episode we did with Maintainer Month, and whatnot... And essentially, he did some back-of-the-napkin math, and it was like 2k per engine... |
**Stormy Peters:** Yeah, but you can look at it in a number of ways. You could look at how many engineers does your company have, how much soft money do you make off the software you build on it? How many different software projects do you use? You could offer up a whole bunch of formulas, and I think we probably just ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We had this entire conversation, Stormy... I really wish you would have heard it... I'm gonna paraphrase it. We talked about this idea of a pricing page that a SaaS company might have for them. You've got the free tier, you've got the pro plan, you've got the business plan, you've got the enterprise... |
**Stormy Peters:** And it also depends on what the maintainer wants to be responsible for, or commit to; I'm not quite sure the right word there. What if I wrote it last summer, I had a month off, and I wrote this really cool library that solved a need for me, and I put it out there? I'm done with it. I did it, I put i... |
I talked to someone last night at dinner, and he's like "I have a job, but they're using my software, and I try to help them... I look at their pull requests, I send them emails..." He's in a very active role in his project. Those are different scenarios. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Maintainer guilt. |
**Stormy Peters:** Not guilt... |
**Jerod Santo:** He wants to. |
**Stormy Peters:** You're solving a problem for the world. |
**Jerod Santo:** He wants to do it. |
**Stormy Peters:** But he would probably have more time to do it if he got compensated more. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. But also he wants to do it right now, but three, four or five years from now his life changes, he doesn't want to do it anymore... Now he gets the maintainer guilt of like "Well, all these people rely upon me. I'm burning out, I don't want to do this. I've got a baby now", or whatever it is... |
**Stormy Peters:** That's been a theme. That's a theme for Maintainer month, and it's also - it was a talk yesterday, of how do you do succession planning? |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. How do you do succession planning? |
**Stormy Peters:** I'm definitely not the expert. I could find you the speaker of that talk. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We have talked about that... |
**Jerod Santo:** We've asked a few people that question... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's like getting to Rome. There's just so many roads to get there. |
**Stormy Peters:** Yeah, I think it definitely is building out your community and building trusts along the way. You have to put other people in positions of trust, so there's someone to fill your shoes when you leave. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, that's the easy way to do it -- I mean, not the easy way, but that's the right way to do it, I guess... Versus like one day being like "Okay, I need a successor." Right? "But I haven't been preparing for this day at all. But I need one right now." And so - what, I put out a post on my social, tha... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** "Please help." |
**Stormy Peters:** I think we could learn a lot from nonprofits in this space. I think they have the same problem. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. How so? |
**Stormy Peters:** So a lot of nonprofits don't have people on salary, a lot of the smaller ones... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. It's all volunteers. |
**Stormy Peters:** Yeah. So if the person running it wants to leave or go do something else, they have to have a succession plan as well. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[14:01\] Well, we talked about having Terms of Service, to some degree... Like, if you want to be maintainer, or you are a maintainer, or you want to bring on a contributor, a terms of service... So what you're saying is if you need to leave, or you need to step away, the social construct should be... |
**Stormy Peters:** And I agree with that. That would be great, \[unintelligible 00:14:25.12\] and especially if other people are using it... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** For sure. |
**Stormy Peters:** But I agree with that as well. Like, it's much easier to get people to step up to positions in your project if you're clear about what they are. Like, "Hey, if you submit five pull requests, and I pretty much accepted them unchanged, and you're always there when I send you an email or a DM, then I'm ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. And if you accept it, when you leave - which is cool - please help me find somebody who might be suitable."And the please might be more "You have to", versus just simply please. |
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