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**Break:** \[56:09\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Drupal is still a big deal, right? Is Drupal still a big deal? |
**Jerod Santo:** I would think so... |
**Angie Byron:** I wouldn't say Drupal is still a big deal, yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I know somebody who's big into Drupal... Well, I don't know him-know him, but I know him... His name's Jeff Geerling. |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah, yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** He's a big Drupal guy, and he's moving this stuff off of Drupal -- |
**Jerod Santo:** YouTuber, right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...onto, I believe WordPress, if I last looked... |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, he's moving off Drupal? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Like he would self-host, and do a bunch of stuff... So I think he was a big Drupal person, but I just wonder, is the tide shifting away from Drupal? Is it still a big deal? What's the -- do you know? |
**Angie Byron:** I think what I would say about that is Drupal has kind of shifted, where what it's really targeting at this point is like ambitious digital experiences, sort of what we say. It's an open source data platform for all that kind of stuff. And what that means is if what you're doing is running a personal b... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. Access control. So do you plug into like SSOs, and stuff like that now? Is there plugins for that? |
**Angie Byron:** Oh yeah, there's plugins for everything. Yeah, plugging into SSO; if you want different functionality and features, you click buttons for that, that kind of stuff. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Gotcha. Are you still in the Drupal community? Like, what's your state? |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's been a while since we talked to you. |
**Angie Byron:** It has been a while, I know. Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** 2018, the last time Angie has been on the show. So it's been -- |
**Jerod Santo:** Five years. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ..essentially a lifetime ago. |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah, in tech especially. It's like, that was seven lifetimes ago. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What's happened? Are you still involved? What's your state? |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah, so I ended up departing Acquia in 2021 or so, because I kind of had gotten to the point where it's like, okay, I kind of saw Drupal through -- you know, it's a toddler banging itself on the furniture kind of stages, and up to now it's an adult, with a stable apartment, and all this kind of stuff. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. Paying their bills, earning credit... |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah. You know, the releases are coming out on time, we're not having security vulnerabilities... These kinds of things. So it kind of felt like "Okay, I beat this level of my career" kind of thing. And then I started getting into data platforms. So I went into MongoDB, and now I'm at Ivan, which is a ... |
\[01:01:53.17\] Yeah, so I would say I'm less involved in the day-to-day of Drupal. I used to know literally everything that was going on, I was on top of every issue, I was on top of every new contributor, that kind of stuff... But what I do get pulled in for Drupal now is like the kind of big strategic decisions, lik... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. Well, I have to say that I really, really enjoyed the episode we did with you way back when... |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah, that was fun. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...episode 321, if you're listening to this, back in October of 2018. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's a good number. 321. |
**Angie Byron:** It's a great number. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I just loved the energy you brought to that community. Jerod and I are very much departed from Drupal; we're not involved really at all, and I feel like you gave us the best 30,000-foot, maybe 12,000-foot view of that world... And you just had so much passion, you really just did. |
**Angie Byron:** Well, thank you. Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I mean, you represented Drupal very well. |
**Angie Byron:** And I still do. I love Drupal, and I love that community... The software is really interesting, especially for kind of like those big projects that have a lot of different moving parts, or -- I used to say Drupal is great if your client has no idea what they want, because it can do all of the different... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. So we're here as part of Maintainer Month, along with GitHub, and celebrating this community, and open source maintainers... So it's been a bit since we caught up, so what's your maintainer story now? If you were giving a fresh view of your maintainer story, what is it? |
**Angie Byron:** I think my maintainer story has moved to the point where I'm trying to sort of empower more people. So if you think about building out a leadership bench of your maintainership, so that you're not solely dependent on individual contributors, that have been with the project for a long time, and have a l... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What's involved in that? Is there documentation involved? Are you writing syllabuses? |
**Angie Byron:** Gosh... I should, right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How are you educating and on-ramping this leadership? It seems like it's just proving ground for documentation to some degree, because you can document the process, and usher them in. |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah. I mean, when we set up the governance structure originally -- because originally, it was me and Dries. We were the two maintainers for Drupal 7. And that was not going to scale as we built out. So we started by creating like a core governance, where we had kind of different types of committers, t... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Angie Byron:** So my involvement has been a lot more ad hoc, just kind of like having one-off conversations with people... But you're right, I should start documenting some of this stuff, because - yeah, it's good information for people to know. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You probably have to repeat yourself a lot. |
**Angie Byron:** Well, I don't know. I enjoy repeating myself a lot... \[laughter\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Positively, I mean. In the most best case possible. So I find that I repeat myself a lot too, and I've learned that I have limited bandwidth, and I have to begin to jot down and put down things that I do, particularly for our organization... And I've been executing on that, and like getting that pos... |
**Angie Byron:** Do some thought leadership? Yeah. You're right, you're right. It is true. Because otherwise, the stuff that you're imparting kind of stays within that one conversation, when it won't be out there for the benefit of everybody. |
**Jerod Santo:** But talking is so much more fun than writing. |
**Angie Byron:** It really is, that's the thing. |
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