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**Adam Stacoviak:** It is. |
**Angie Byron:** I like writing too, honestly... But yeah. I just never shut up, so it'll be like 4,000 words that could have been in 20. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You could transcribe yourself, which is what we do for our shows. |
**Angie Byron:** Oh, interesting. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** This is being transcribed right now. |
**Jerod Santo:** Not right now, as we speak... |
**Angie Byron:** \[01:05:51.09\] Okay, so I'd better watch what I-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Not literally right now, but -- |
**Jerod Santo:** Eventually. This is on the record. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There is a buffer between now and the transcribed. |
**Angie Byron:** Okay, right on. |
**Jerod Santo:** And then you could give it to your favorite language model and say, "Turn this into documentation." |
**Angie Byron:** That's cool. Alright. I'm gonna think about that. |
**Jerod Santo:** There's an idea. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Here's a question for you... So going back to '21, you said you felt like you beat that level, you're ready for your next adventure... How do you decide what's next? How did you decide what's next? How did you pick this area of work, and what drew you here? |
**Angie Byron:** Well, so Drupal had this amazing community, but largely consisted of web developers. Web developers who could stand PHP, specifically. So that's like a pretty small -- |
**Jerod Santo:** Alright, it's a niche inside a niche. |
**Angie Byron:** It's a little bit of a niche inside of a niche, exactly. So what appeals to me about data platforms is that any kind of developer can use them, in any kind of language. So you can be -- you have C++ developers doing embedded systems, you can have folks doing AI and ML, you can have web developers... |
**Jerod Santo:** Sure. |
**Angie Byron:** ...all these kinds of things. And what interests me from a community management perspective, because that's kind of my deal, and Director of Community - I love getting people together, and just like making awesome things happen... Is cracking that code. Do you know what I mean? Around those different l... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. Where is the common thread. |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah, exactly. And Ivan is really interesting, because it's the common thread among many open source projects. A MySQL developer and a Postgres developer don't necessarily have a lot in common; they won't go to the same user groups necessarily. But if you pull it up a level to open source data infrastr... |
**Jerod Santo:** How did that opportunity present itself? |
**Angie Byron:** Well, the MongoDB opportunity presented itself because I know a guy named John O'Bacon who is big in the community leadership space. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** John O! |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah, he's great. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We know John O |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah. And we've kept in touch, and I kind of subtly was like "Hey, I'm not actively looking, but if you know of anything, just pass it along my way." And yeah, he passed it along, and I was like "Wow, this is really cool." And so I got to kind of meet the different leadership at MongoDB, and I was like... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We've covered this. |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, not Mongo directly, but all the peripherals around the BSL, the SSPL... |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah, yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. Mostly with a view into Elastic, at the time... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** All the nuance, yeah. |
**Angie Byron:** Which is interesting, because the OSI hasn't quite cracked this yet, right? Because if you look objectively at open source projects that have adopted these open-ish licenses, except if you're going to run your own service, it becomes a stable funding model for them. MongoDB's revenue went po-po-poom! |
**Adam Stacoviak:** For sure. |
**Angie Byron:** And the open source, true open source communities do not have that. An Amazon or somebody can take their product, productize it on their own thing, charge a bazillion dollars, and they don't have any obligation to give back anything to the project. So it's a huge challenge. So I appreciate that about t... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It has restrictions, though, right? Like, the SSPL and the BSL both have restrictions, which I think is a sticking point. |
**Angie Byron:** Yes, and that's why they're not open source licenses. |
**Jerod Santo:** Exactly. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. It's obvious why there is a sticking point. It's not like "Oh, well, we just can't call them open source." |
**Angie Byron:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Because eventually open source is not open source necessarily. |
**Angie Byron:** Exactly. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Now, there will be people out there who will argue that, as you may know... And those people may even operate those companies who run that software that is BSL, or SSPL-licensed... And that's cool. But it is restricted. So by the nature of restriction, it is not open. |
**Angie Byron:** \[01:09:55.13\] Exactly. But it is an interesting thing in that absent of having a sustainable, recurring revenue model that you can build off a service to run your thing, you kind of have to do one-off projects, or you have to beg for money from big corporate... Your funding options are much more limi... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** For sure. |
**Angie Byron:** So I respected MongoDB a lot that they went after a solution to that problem. Even if it's not keeping with the full spirit of open source, it was like -- it's creative. I give you credit for that. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I think the community accepts the SSPL and the BSL license solutions you're talking about though, quite well. |
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