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**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, that was great. What I couldn't connect though was that Debian was released in 1993. Now, I don't know the history from '93 to '95, but Toy Story 1 was released November 22nd, 1995. So there's a two year gap there that I'm not really sure where the names came from. What was Debian 1? What was ... |
**Jonathan Carter:** I think Debian 1 only happened in late 1994, and then it didn't have a release name yet. But also, Debian's history with Toy Story comes from before the movie was released, because \[unintelligible 00:29:42.16\] parents worked at Pixar at the time. So Debian was actually used for the rendering of T... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Wow. |
**Jonathan Carter:** So Debian and Pixar goes together for a long time. And it's interesting, because Next and Pixar also went hand in hand for a long time. Steve Jobs once said "If it wasn't for Pixar, they wouldn't have been Next." So you have this Apple history going back to the \[unintelligible 00:30:18.01\] Debian... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, for sure. Okay, I looked up Bookworm. He is a minor antagonist in Toy Story 3, a green worm with glasses and a sturdy flashlight. A genius who loves reading books. That particular character did slip my mind. I don't remember Toy Story 3 very well. It's the one that I guess falls through the crack... |
**Jonathan Carter:** And Forky is relevant with all the forks happening right now. There's always forks in free software, and controversial folks as well... So we'll see if there's any fun forks around Forky when that's released. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** When will Gabby get a release name? That's what I'm curious about. Gabby. |
**Jonathan Carter:** Gabby? Who's that? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Gabby is in Toy Story 4, and she is the doll that -- I'm gonna spoil plots here for people who may not have watched it... |
**Jerod Santo:** Don't do it, man... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Antagonist character for a bit there. She's a bad doll for a bit, until she was good. It's perspective, like with every character you find. You don't like them for a while, until you realize why they're the way they are, and then you love them and you cheer for them. So that's Gabby. Gabby is the --... |
**Jonathan Carter:** I wish they could have taken that name while I was DPL, because my one dog's name is Gabby. So that would have been perfect. |
**Jerod Santo:** That would have been nice. Gabby/Gabby. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Gabby/Gabby. |
**Break**: \[31:52\] |
**Jerod Santo:** You've mentioned the free aspects... And so when I think about what makes Debian special, I think the completely volunteer-led thing is obviously huge, and I think also the free aspect, because this is 100% free and open source software. And we're talking free as in freedom, and also free as in beer. B... |
**Jonathan Carter:** Well, in terms of freedom, when we talk free as in free, we call it DFSG free, which stands for Debian Free Software Guidelines. This was the document set up way back. I think it was somewhere '96. I'm not even completely sure. But if you look at the Debian Free Software Guidelines and the open sou... |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, really? |
**Jonathan Carter:** Yeah. And Debian was fine with this. Debian encouraged this even. So the DFSG even predates the open source definition by a few years. And it's great. And when it comes to device drivers and non-free stuff, we had to change recently our policy towards that... Because how it used to work is if you i... |
\[38:08\] And to make it worse, even the audio you need these days, the sound drivers need non-free firmware in order to start up. So you can't even play a sound, or for blind users you can't guide them through an installation. So last year we had what we call a general resolution where the whole project votes on a spe... |
So we're taking a step back in terms of total freeness, but at the same time, we're taking some steps forward in order to fix that as well. I mean, we can't really control what Nvidia does, or what AMD does. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. That's interesting. I did not know that. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, the last time I installed Debian I recall getting asked to scan the system, I think, if I recall correctly. It was like some sort of request to say "There could be non-free software for you to install." I think it was like a system check of sorts. They'd be like "Okay, do you have Wi-Fi and ot... |
**Jonathan Carter:** Yeah, the installer used to detect that you have a Wi-Fi card that needs firmware, or a sound card that needs firmware, and then it would prompt you that, you know, if you have a USB disk that contains this, you can insert that now and it will load that firmware to continue to install it. Now that ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is this as of version 12 then? |
**Jonathan Carter:** Version 12, yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. I was gonna say... Because the last one I did install was 11. |
**Jonathan Carter:** Yeah, 12 was quite a leap forward. 12 is a very -- we've got great feedback from 12 overall, so I suggest giving it a shot sometime. |
**Jerod Santo:** What kind of stuff comes out in a Linux distribution? Maybe even step back from that, and for the completely uninitiated - maybe just like the typical Mac developer, like, what is a Linux distribution, of which Debian is one? Why isn't it just Linux? What do you have to do in addition? And then from th... |
**Jonathan Carter:** Okay, great. So Debian is almost comparable to Wikipedia. Wikipedia wants to build this huge base of articles of all knowledge in the world. Debian does that for free software. So if you just take a Linux Kernel and boot it up, you don't get anything much exciting; you get a screen with black text ... |
\[42:12\] Our goal is to eventually package all of the free software that exists. The only problem is that the amount of free software that exists keeps on growing exponentially, and we're always playing catch up. But at the moment with Debian 12 there's 60,000 binary packages. If you just read the descriptions for all... |
So there's this huge library of free software that exists, that you can use to build new things from, and it's exciting, all the different software that exists from the web perspective, there's lots of programming languages, web servers, database engines... If you use it on a desktop, there's different desktop environm... |
**Jerod Santo:** What's it called? |
**Jonathan Carter:** Librem 5. |
**Jerod Santo:** Librem 5. I have not seen this. |
**Jonathan Carter:** Yeah. So this is actually a completely open source phone as well. The hardware is all open source. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's cool. |
**Jonathan Carter:** Yeah. And it runs Debian, and it's -- I've just upgraded it to Debian 12 a while ago... But it's really a thick phone as well, because it has lots of replaceable hardware, and it's meant to be a development platform. But yeah, it's fantastic that you can run Debian on everything, from a supercomput... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Literally universal. That's cool. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yes. The universal. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's pretty cool. I was listening to something recently... Somebody was on Joe Rogan and they were talking about the monopoly of iOS. That it's like more than... I think it's like 58%, and so the monopoly rules here in the United States, where - Jerod and I are in the United States - are 50% or mo... |
**Jonathan Carter:** This is called Mobian. So it's a team within Debian that creates -- it's slightly divergent from the same installation media you'd use to use a desktop or a server... But in the future we'll probably have one installation media that you can use to install it on your phone as well. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Well, the point I was trying to make - there's choice. We really do need choice. I'm not sure if I would choose open source hardware and open source software on my phone yet, because it's like in such an immature state. And I would love to check out Mobian. But it's an interesting world, becau... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[46:08\] The A. |
**Jonathan Carter:** The G. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, sorry. The A. My bad. |
**Jerod Santo:** Off by one there. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I was thinking Facebook. I'm glad you got my back. It's in the FANG, man... It's in the FANG. You're picking up my breadcrumbs. |
**Jonathan Carter:** It's in the FANG, yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. So I mean -- which is okay, I guess, for a while there, because back in 2007 Steve Jobs got up on a stage and proclaimed iPhone, and the world has changed pretty much since then when it comes to mobile intelligence and mobile accessibility to the internet, and communication, and information...... |
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