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2023-Changelog-Interviews-Transcripts

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[2421.48 --> 2425.56] We got a couple versions of the same library, yeah.
[2425.60 --> 2428.34] We try to keep one, but YAML is a special case.
[2428.54 --> 2428.86] Sure.
[2429.64 --> 2431.08] You got to do what you got to do.
[2431.14 --> 2431.58] I like YAML.
[2431.80 --> 2432.52] It's not the worst.
[2433.22 --> 2434.58] It's not as bad as people make out.
[2434.68 --> 2434.98] No.
[2435.24 --> 2436.44] I'd rather write YAML than JSON.
[2437.14 --> 2437.34] Yeah.
[2438.10 --> 2438.50] Agreed.
[2438.80 --> 2439.82] For the most part.
[2440.00 --> 2442.74] I feel like you can shoot yourself on the foot more with YAML.
[2443.14 --> 2443.46] Yes.
[2444.42 --> 2446.38] And complex YAML is very complex.
[2446.92 --> 2448.14] But simple YAML is very simple.
[2448.58 --> 2448.68] So.
[2448.82 --> 2449.20] Yeah.
[2449.62 --> 2450.42] I'm not against it.
[2451.12 --> 2453.22] JSON might be easier to read if it's prettier.
[2454.30 --> 2454.70] Yeah.
[2454.94 --> 2455.34] Potentially.
[2455.58 --> 2456.40] It's more verbose.
[2456.66 --> 2456.92] Yeah.
[2457.00 --> 2457.14] Yeah.
[2457.48 --> 2461.80] You can see the invitations and the nesting a lot better than you might, I guess.
[2461.84 --> 2463.76] I guess you can see either of those pretty easily, but.
[2464.34 --> 2469.98] I like it in YAML because my editor can show me, like, the number of tab indents I have, right?
[2470.10 --> 2470.44] Right.
[2470.44 --> 2474.46] So he can, like, show me a one, two, three, and that's really nice to see.
[2474.60 --> 2474.80] Yeah.
[2474.80 --> 2475.08] Yeah.
[2475.08 --> 2479.32] So that's your biggest challenge is this marshaling around YAML and contributors.
[2479.32 --> 2479.76] Yeah.
[2479.76 --> 2480.12] New contributors.
[2480.12 --> 2480.44] No, contributors.
[2480.44 --> 2480.76] Contributors.
[2480.98 --> 2481.38] Contributors.
[2481.58 --> 2481.74] Yeah.
[2481.86 --> 2486.26] So we, people working on the project, I work with people from Google, Red Hat.
[2486.26 --> 2491.26] We had someone from Shopify that fortunately just got laid off, pour some out.
[2493.48 --> 2494.88] Bunch of Googlers, Red Haters.
[2494.90 --> 2495.64] Don't pour your gin out.
[2495.86 --> 2496.60] Don't pour your gin out.
[2496.66 --> 2496.78] No.
[2497.86 --> 2498.26] Water.
[2498.48 --> 2499.14] Pour your water out.
[2499.28 --> 2499.50] Yeah.
[2499.64 --> 2503.62] And then we have people who come by and they want to get involved in Kubernetes and they're
[2503.62 --> 2504.80] curious about things.
[2504.86 --> 2507.20] And the CLI seems like a great entry point.
[2507.36 --> 2507.48] Yeah.
[2507.48 --> 2513.84] And as a project, we're still struggling with mentorship programs and onboarding.
[2514.10 --> 2517.26] And one of the hard parts is maintainer burnout, right?
[2517.26 --> 2522.80] Because we can, early on, I was very happy to sit down with someone for hours and just
[2522.80 --> 2525.72] walk them through stuff, answer every question, help them write their code.
[2525.96 --> 2526.20] Right.
[2526.38 --> 2529.40] And then they make their one contribution and then they disappear and they'll come back.
[2529.78 --> 2532.42] And you do that enough times and you're feeling really crispy.
[2534.06 --> 2534.46] Yeah.
[2534.64 --> 2535.18] It makes sense.
[2535.18 --> 2538.34] Do you do videos?
[2538.64 --> 2543.82] Do you find ways to not repeat yourself in that way so you can say, here's me telling
[2543.82 --> 2545.28] you how to do these things and sit down with you?
[2545.34 --> 2547.78] Maybe there's a video you could do or documentation.
[2548.08 --> 2551.52] And that seems to be the easy, hey, why don't you just do documentation?
[2552.00 --> 2555.80] But is there a way you can put down the wisdom, so to speak?
[2556.18 --> 2560.56] From a mentorship perspective and succession planning, this is something that's big for
[2560.56 --> 2565.08] maintainer month is how can you operate with balance as a team?
[2565.18 --> 2566.02] As an individual.
[2566.46 --> 2569.42] And then also how can you plan for succession when it's necessary?
[2570.42 --> 2573.02] It's definitely something we're working through with the project.
[2573.64 --> 2576.12] We have tons of developer documentation, right?
[2576.16 --> 2578.06] Probably too much that people don't read, right?
[2578.08 --> 2579.60] It's overwhelming when you first come in.
[2580.90 --> 2583.22] Getting your development environment set up, right?
[2583.22 --> 2585.66] It's so many moving pieces.
[2586.14 --> 2589.28] And container runtime really only works well on Linux.
[2589.38 --> 2591.84] And most people aren't running Linux as their OS.
[2592.22 --> 2592.92] How dare them.
[2592.98 --> 2593.26] Right?
[2593.80 --> 2594.26] Linux.
[2595.08 --> 2596.14] Linux for life.
[2596.14 --> 2598.26] But it's something we're definitely trying to work towards.
[2598.42 --> 2601.80] We want to make as much onboarding material as we can.
[2601.86 --> 2603.16] We've had mentorship cohorts.
[2603.80 --> 2607.60] But at the end of the day, it's very complex as a code base.
[2607.82 --> 2607.98] Yeah.
[2607.98 --> 2609.08] And it's just old.
[2609.22 --> 2615.30] And there's so many, there's so much, we don't say tribal knowledge anymore.
[2615.56 --> 2616.16] What do we say?
[2617.46 --> 2619.08] Preconceived knowledge.
[2619.64 --> 2621.70] Decisions that were made a while ago, right?
[2621.84 --> 2625.60] And people come in headstrong, really wanting to help out and contribute.
[2625.76 --> 2627.00] And it's like, well, we tried that.
[2627.04 --> 2629.26] And here's why it didn't work six different times.
[2629.26 --> 2632.66] And that is the hard part is the context and the history.
[2632.80 --> 2634.52] How do we communicate that to new people?
[2634.82 --> 2634.94] Right.
[2635.24 --> 2638.02] What's the process to become a contributor long term?