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**Steve Yegge:** I was living the dream. |
**Jerod Santo:** So the dream turned out to not be so hot? I mean, how come you came out of retirement then? Why didn't you just live dream? |
**Steve Yegge:** I guess it's possible to start climbing the walls, even in your own private castle, with all the guitars you'd ever want... You climb the walls. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] Okay... |
**Steve Yegge:** I miss people. I'm a bit of an introvert, but also, I miss working with people, I miss solving great problems... And I know a bunch of folks that did exactly the same thing I did. Retire for two years, and then they're like "I've gotta get back into this." Honestly, and truthfully - and this is just my... |
**Jerod Santo:** It was two years that you were tired? |
**Steve Yegge:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** And how long have you been back in it? |
**Steve Yegge:** Gosh, I think it's since late September... So yeah, going on 10 months maybe. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How old are you? |
**Steve Yegge:** How old am I? I'm 54. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. And after these 10 months, you're in it, you're back in the game, you're working... Do you feel more satisfaction? Do you feel more fulfilled? Do you feel better? |
**Steve Yegge:** Yeah. I've lost weight, I've had more energy... It's interesting, retiring turned me into sort of a video game drooling zombie, and I didn't like that. And I was kind of reminded of Bourdain, saying that he has to spend all this time coming up with stratagems to keep him from turning into that guy that... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Steve Yegge:** And so I was kind of inspired by that. That's a part of why I came back out of retirement. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's crazy. |
**Jerod Santo:** It makes sense. It's just funny timing... We just had a show with Kelsey Hightower, who just retired from Google, at age 42, I think he is... And he's like literally in week two now, at this point. He's like "I'm gonna see how it's going, but you know... |
**Steve Yegge:** We will see. When I retired, I was like "Man, I am done!" And my buddy Mark Porter is like "I give you two years." |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] He drilled it. |
**Steve Yegge:** He's retired twice, and both times his wife said "You need to get out of the house!" |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, for real. I mean, having something to truly push up a mountain is fulfilling. We like struggle; struggle's necessary for life. You need -- some people get upset when they have fear, or they have doubt. Those are just feedback mechanisms. Or even anxiety is a feedback mechanism for your body. P... |
**Steve Yegge:** You sound like a great leader, Adam. "You need fear!" |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You do! That's what I tell myself. I lead myself. I somewhat lead Jerod, to some degree. I mean, we co-lead each other, as you've said before... |
**Steve Yegge:** \[01:10:18.27\] I'm kind of kidding though, because I mean, it is important, basically, training data for your brain. When I said feet to the fire - you learn with your feet to the fire. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. People want to remove it, though. They want to remove these things. They're like "I don't want fear. I don't want to anxiety!" Those are feedback mechanisms. Leverage them. |
**Steve Yegge:** Right. When they disappear for two years, they're replaced with Cheetos. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, like you said, Steve, at the beginning - those moments when you're learning, when your feet are to the fire, you're actually growing. It hurts, it's scary, it's pleasant, but you're growing as a human being; you're actually expanding and becoming better. One thing I say often is that nothing nota... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Literally why, and literally how? How did you get wooed back to the game? The exact story. |
**Steve Yegge:** I mean, there wasn't much to it... My buddy -- you know Temporal? Or Cadence? It used to be called -- I think it's Temporal now. Really cool system... The CEO is a buddy of mine; he introduced me to Quinn and Beyang, and we chatted, and found that there was a lot of alignment and overlap and interest. ... |
Then I started talking to companies, and I talked to 21 or 22 different companies. And I'm talking about like interviewed with 21 or 22 different companies, and had the conversations with them, for a bunch of executive positions, and heads, and VPs, and blah-blah. A lot of them were banks, oddly enough, and a lot of th... |
So ultimately, I took a look at the options and I was like "Yeah, I mean, they're pre-IPO, series D, they've got money in the bank, they've got an incredible culture, they've got really cool tech..." I looked into their tech, and it had finally reached the point, after ten long years... Because they focused on search f... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Really? |
**Steve Yegge:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It seems so premeditated. I mean, based on your history. |
**Steve Yegge:** Well, they say that luck favors the prepared, right? I mean, I talked to 21 companies, so maybe it wasn't luck. Maybe it was hard work and hard searching, but... I'm grateful that I found Sourcegraph, and I'm really, really, really excited to be on this journey with them, because it's gotten crazy this... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[01:14:10.10\] Your selection criteria is good, though. The pre-IPO, series D, great, relatable founders... We both know Quinn and Beyang. We've known Beyang for years, I've known Quinn for at least a year or so... And I've had great conversations with both of them. They're down to earth, easy to t... |
**Jerod Santo:** Not sociopaths, or...? |
**Steve Yegge:** That's a good point. I don't usually list reasons for why Sourcegraph, but I did talk to a lot of C-suite people in my journey, and Quinn and Beyang are definitely a different cut from the rest. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** They are. |
**Steve Yegge:** Like you say, unbelievably down to earth. They're just like us, they just want to get cool stuff done, and hack, and have fun, and change the world. And that resonated a lot with me. So we clicked, the three of us, and that had played a huge role. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Where is this going? Now that you've built Cody in two weeks, which was probably six months ago, seven months ago now... Ish... |
**Steve Yegge:** Cody 2. Hasn't Cody 2 just come out, or something? I saw a blog post... |
**Steve Yegge:** Yeah, we did just launch -- well, it was really kind of Cody 1. So it's the first time that anybody can just like use it. |
**Jerod Santo:** I see. |
**Steve Yegge:** Because we have to pay for GPUs for you, basically. So it was a bit of a logistics challenge to actually get Cody out to everybody. Next step is we're going to make it an even more lovable experience. I mean, like I said before, a lot of your experience with any AI coding assistant, including Copilot, ... |
Because ultimately - look, Cody is great right now if you have a question about your database, about some stuff you haven't seen, it's new code you haven't seen... But for day to day, where you already know the code, and your IDE is helping you, and stuff... And maybe Cody doesn't come to mind as your very first stop, ... |
You would be shocked at how much low-hanging fruit there is. I mean, you look at Cody and it does make a fair number of mistakes, but the ability for us to fix these things is extraordinary. Everything that we've tried has made it better. So in other words, we're starting with kind of the worst possible implementation ... |
Where are we going with it? I mean, long-term... Look, I want Cody to be your first stop when you're coding. Look, one of the things that I was always jealous of, truly envious, about VPs with executive assistants, as I was going through my career, was that they were always like a team of two people. And they were alwa... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You gotta give us a Thanos snap if you're gonna say it's inevitable. You can't put that word out there and not snap your fingers. "I'm inevitable!" |
**Steve Yegge:** I forgot about that. |
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