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There other people in the space - I don't know, I don't really follow them, but there's a bunch of really cool, cool-looking, slick coding assistants... But really, all they are is a proxy to the LLM. They don't have this independent, authoritative source of compiler-grade metadata about your codebase that Sourcegraph ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. You said, "Why we will always be the leader." That's an absolute. Always. |
**Jerod Santo:** You're putting your stake in the ground. |
**Steve Yegge:** Well, of course, leaders - of course, another one that could mean various things. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Sure. Not "The best." |
**Steve Yegge:** This comes back to a point that I made earlier, which is that big companies are necessarily, because of the entire Gordian knot that gets created around the investors, and the sales, and the shareholders, and the quarterly earnings reports, and the expectations, and commitments, and the quality that pe... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay, so given that, let's imagine now... Let's just say I'm prompting you, okay? This is what I tell ChatGPT sometimes. |
**Steve Yegge:** I'm an LLM. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Imagine, act as if you're a doctor of programming. You have a piece of paper in front of you, and you're gonna write a prescription for all developers. And from this podcast - they're listening; they're on the edge. They're like "Man, okay... Steve's gonna tell me what to do." This is inevitable. It... |
**Steve Yegge:** Well, I mean, obviously Cody's the easy button there, because you can just download it and use it, and it's free. But I have written this prescription for several people recently, and I know what the prescription is. The prescription is "It's time. Learn AI." I put it off for my entire career. I learne... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[01:34:06.22\] It's like salt and pepper in a shaker. In the same shaker. You can't separate the salt and pepper. |
**Steve Yegge:** It is. You can't unmix them. But it's different than it was 20 years ago. It's leveled up; today you don't have to learn assembly language, you don't have to learn machine code, or whatever that stuff is below assembly language. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** GraphQL. |
**Steve Yegge:** Yeah, you don't have to learn GraphQL either. So learning this stuff is easier, but everybody, every engineer needs to familiarize themselves with the foundational concepts that are in play with LLMs today. Because first of all, it will make you more effective; you'll just be better at like pulling off... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. Let's get a second prescription to this then. Once they learn it, what should they do then? |
**Steve Yegge:** \[laughs\] Go play with Cody... Well, they'll know. You'll know. You'll just know. You'll be like "Oh, well, I could do that..." That's what you'll say. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** The reason why I asked you this is because I'm talking to companies and people, and they're like "Well, I've gotta put AI." So I have lots of conversations around the scenes with would-be and potential sponsors and partners and different things we do... And more recently, I talked to Abi Noda, who i... |
**Steve Yegge:** I mean, AI is always the same. AI is a very well-established -- even with LLMs, it hasn't fundamentally changed the basic game, which is you establish benchmarks with human evals that's say "This is good, this is bad. Let's teach the computer what's good and bad." These are the foundational concepts yo... |
And it's so quantitative that there are leaderboards for it. You guys know Hugging Face, right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[01:38:00.10\] Yeah. |
**Steve Yegge:** Literally, it's a giant -- it's like video games. Literally, everybody's like... There are leaderboards. AI has been a big gamified competition for 20 years. And so once you're in AI, you realize how it works, you're like "Okay, this is what we need to do - we need to make our product better in the fol... |
**Jerod Santo:** Nothing to it but to do it, and the time is now. |
**Steve Yegge:** So the prescription - I know it feels like a bit of the suppository, but it really is... It is something that I strongly recommend that people do. I know everyone's kind of lazy and kind of doesn't want to do it, but seriously... And it's fun, too. I mean, I didn't -- seriously, I ignored AI, even at G... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** No, no. |
**Steve Yegge:** What do you want my silver bullet to be? You wanted a silver bullet. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** No, no, no, it's not that, really. No, I think any answer is great. You've got a lot of wisdom, and I think your prescription was spot on. Your second part of it was mostly there, but we'll improve it over time, right? |
**Steve Yegge:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** No problem there. |
**Jerod Santo:** Iterate. Come back and give us another prescription. Come back and give us another one. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's really been fun going through your history, and hearing this experience... |
**Jerod Santo:** For sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Because one thing that I think Jerod and I both love about this show is we have a diverse set of people on this show, from all sorts of different backgrounds. Young French dudes who make an Oculus Rift open source version of it, like that kind of thing, from folks like you, that have a lot of experi... |
**Steve Yegge:** Thanks for having me. What you're saying is resonating. I really do think that we need to share more. Companies tend to be really closed up, but... We're just people. Let's share more. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** For sure. For sure, for sure. So Sourcegraph.com. Sourcegraph.com/cody. We're fans of Sourcegraph here. We've been sponsored by Sourcegraph before, we've been fans of Sourcegraph for many years... And I'm rooting for you all. I like your moat. I hope it gets bigger, and I hope it gets fortified. So ... |
**Steve Yegge:** Well, thanks so much. Thanks, guys. |
**Jerod Santo:** Thanks, Steve. This was awesome. |
• Tauri 1.5 release and its features |
• Crab Nebula and other projects pushing the Tauri ecosystem forward |
• Electron vs Tauri user interface |
• Daniel's idea to create a web browser with Tauri |
• Century's features and benefits, including a free developer plan and team plan discounts |
• Tauri's 2.0 release and its mobile and embedded features |
• Performance and bundle size considerations with Tauri |
• Tauri's community growth and adoption, including innovative use cases and challenges for developers |
• Fig.io, a developer tool, was acquired by AWS |
• Toweri ecosystem is growing, with many projects and integrations being developed |
• Toweri is being used internally by companies, and some have even started to license their products and services |
• Rust is becoming a barrier to adoption for some developers, but also an opportunity for others to learn and use it |
• Toweri is evolving into a collection of tools that can be pieced together in different ways, with various languages and frameworks being supported |
• There is enough interest in Toweri to motivate developers to work around its limitations, such as building alternative backends or integrations. |
• Founding a company, Crab Nebula, to support Toweri, a militantly driven open source community |
• Securing investment from Oss Capital, a venture group that supports early-stage open source projects |
• Assembling an "all-star regiment" of angel investors, including notable figures in the open source community |
• Focusing on auditing Toweri and investing in related products, rather than custom development |
• Building a platform to empower developers to ship their apps easily and cheaply |
• Criticizing the app signing process and the dominance of major platforms (e.g. Apple, Microsoft) |
• Changes to app stores and the European Union's new law requiring third-party apps to be accessible on devices |
• Empowering citizen developers and making apps accessible to those in low-income or "third world" countries |
• Crab Nebula's dev tool for debugging and its open-source approach to development |
• The concept of "choke point capitalism" and app signing as a means of collecting fees from artists and developers |
• The organizational structure of Towery, including its licenses (Apache 2 and MIT) and stewarded by the Commons Conservancy |
• The working group composed of 45 members, with 20 active members, and the involvement of other companies and organizations |
• The company's donation of full-time employees to work on Towery's core tech and maintenance, as well as making its products open-source available. |
• Dot tech domains are being given away to startups to showcase innovation in tech |
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