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[2931.28 --> 2932.72] I am, I am, I'm focused. |
[2932.96 --> 2933.20] Okay. |
[2933.82 --> 2934.10] Focused. |
[2934.10 --> 2939.50] It seems like the importance of those metrics is, trying to paraphrase, contributor. |
[2939.78 --> 2949.28] You want, if I give a pull request, I want as a human who spent my time and effort to give you the project some value, whether it's X or Y, some sort of feedback. |
[2949.84 --> 2959.76] But the other one where I think you were talking about the pull request backlog, and you mentioned Jared throughput, I got to imagine that tells you, should we increase our team size? |
[2959.76 --> 2961.08] Or should we decrease? |
[2961.14 --> 2962.10] Because we're just closing them fast. |
[2962.18 --> 2964.18] Maybe we have, maybe we're just fast. |
[2964.32 --> 2965.72] Or, hey, we're slow this time. |
[2965.90 --> 2967.36] Or three months consecutively. |
[2967.54 --> 2968.82] Do we need to add a team member? |
[2968.92 --> 2971.80] Should we incubate a new core team member, et cetera? |
[2971.86 --> 2972.80] Is that kind of how you look at it? |
[2972.84 --> 2974.96] It's like, it helps you identify risk. |
[2975.00 --> 2977.40] It helps you communicate with the community really well. |
[2977.40 --> 2981.14] But it also helps you grow or shrink the team as necessary based upon this feedback. |
[2981.14 --> 2984.14] And do you recruit more contributors from outside the company? |
[2984.36 --> 2988.24] So do you get more people involved in the project because you're not keeping up with the contributions? |
[2989.12 --> 2991.56] How well is this idea used by other projects? |
[2991.70 --> 2994.50] This seems to be like a very good idea. |
[2994.50 --> 3002.78] And how many people are using Chaos and Augur to kind of dig in like you have to showcase his health? |
[3003.38 --> 3005.16] So lots of companies, actually. |
[3006.12 --> 3013.88] So I think lots of the big companies that have open source program offices have at one time or another used some of the Chaos tools. |
[3017.00 --> 3020.70] Yeah, I hate to name names because I can't remember which ones I can talk about, which ones I can't. |
[3020.70 --> 3027.68] But most of the big open source program offices at the big companies have used the Chaos tools and are involved in the Chaos Project. |
[3027.86 --> 3033.38] So if you look at the people who are coming to meetings and being involved in the Chaos Project right now, |
[3033.76 --> 3040.16] we see people from Bloomberg and Microsoft and Google and Red Hat and all of the big tech companies. |
[3040.92 --> 3043.18] More specifically, why did you not score? |
[3044.02 --> 3048.96] Like, why did you not establish maladaptive, healthy, a score of 50? |
[3048.96 --> 3050.96] Like, why the pushback against the scoring? |
[3051.08 --> 3052.62] Like, is it too concrete? |
[3052.94 --> 3056.98] Do you need to be a bit more ambiguous in terms of, like, that true health? |
[3057.12 --> 3058.74] No, it's because every project's different. |
[3058.94 --> 3059.10] Okay. |
[3059.18 --> 3069.02] So how do you compare a Kubernetes and give that, like, any algorithm that you could put together that would score something like Kubernetes |
[3069.02 --> 3075.70] and then compare it to a project that has, like, two contributors and, you know, 10 pull requests a month? |
[3076.42 --> 3083.72] Like, any metric that you could score would give you wildly different results because those are very different sizes of projects. |
[3083.94 --> 3085.10] And they have different automation. |
[3085.38 --> 3086.60] They have different, like, release schedules. |
[3086.74 --> 3087.74] Every project's different. |
[3087.74 --> 3092.96] So I want the project themselves to think about what do these metrics mean to me for my project |
[3092.96 --> 3096.86] and interpret it in light of the other stuff that's going on with their project. |
[3097.26 --> 3099.12] Like, you know, like a release window, for example. |
[3099.76 --> 3104.92] Or, you know, KubeCon comes up and you see a drop across the board on, like, CNCF projects, |
[3105.00 --> 3107.50] like the week leading up to KubeCon where everyone's writing their talks. |
[3108.20 --> 3111.04] And during KubeCon and then, you know, you see it go back up. |
[3111.54 --> 3111.68] Right. |
[3111.68 --> 3114.00] So there's lots of stuff that can impact that. |
[3114.32 --> 3120.70] If it's a mostly European-based project, you see a big dip in July because we're all on vacation. |
[3121.22 --> 3123.44] Does it answer the question, are we healthy or not? |
[3124.30 --> 3127.02] Is that, what is it, what's the question specifically that it answers? |
[3127.26 --> 3127.62] Community health. |
[3128.00 --> 3133.86] Yeah, like, is it, because, like, you can score health and say we are healthy or we're healthy-ish |
[3133.86 --> 3138.20] and it can be specific to your repo and I can understand why, you know, if it's a European team, |
[3138.20 --> 3140.00] why July might be less so. |
[3140.00 --> 3146.22] And it's not like, even as an ASPO, I might be like, are my projects healthy or are they less healthy? |
[3146.52 --> 3149.88] And if it says less healthy, oh, because it's July and that makes sense. |
[3150.56 --> 3150.88] Yeah. |
[3150.96 --> 3153.94] I mean, I think the question I like to ask is where can I improve? |
[3154.60 --> 3159.66] So that is where I try to focus on the metrics is being able to look at where I can improve. |
[3159.96 --> 3164.08] But you can use it as kind of a gut check for whether it's healthy or not healthy. |
[3164.08 --> 3167.02] So I do do that within the VMware projects. |
[3167.02 --> 3170.94] There's an arbitrary threshold that I've set where it's, like, healthy and at risk. |
[3171.20 --> 3172.84] So I don't define something as unhealthy. |
[3172.96 --> 3174.70] I define it as at risk. |
[3174.90 --> 3180.98] And then, you know, maybe we look at those a little more closely if they've moved from healthy to at risk. |
[3181.18 --> 3189.76] And then we have other projects that are at risk simply because they're very large and my threshold is arbitrary and doesn't suit them well because they're a really big project. |
[3189.76 --> 3194.32] And my thresholds work really well for the average size projects that we have. |
[3195.08 --> 3197.58] So, yeah, it just depends on the project. |
[3198.12 --> 3198.62] Makes sense. |
[3198.68 --> 3199.80] One last question for you. |
[3199.94 --> 3204.98] You said at a certain point it might be time to recruit an outside contributor. |
[3206.56 --> 3207.90] What does that look like? |
[3208.42 --> 3209.28] Like, how do you do that? |
[3209.28 --> 3212.16] Again, it depends on the project. |
[3212.36 --> 3215.30] But a good place to start is by looking at the people that are adopting it. |
[3215.74 --> 3223.84] And so if you have people who are using your project, that's a good place to start to talk to some of them to see if any of them are interested in contributing. |
[3224.76 --> 3227.38] You know, sometimes you have people who've contributed a little bit. |
[3227.48 --> 3229.06] They've made, you know, a pull request or two. |
[3229.18 --> 3230.26] They filed a few issues. |
[3230.26 --> 3234.58] Maybe encouraging them to contribute a little bit more to the project. |
[3234.96 --> 3239.32] But it depends on what the project's like, who's adopting it, who's using it. |
[3240.62 --> 3241.44] And what do you say? |
[3241.50 --> 3249.22] Do you say we have a core team member slot opening up because, you know, we recognize we have a lack and we have more space for another team member? |
[3249.44 --> 3253.56] And you suggest to these adopters, hey, we have a slot opening up. |
[3254.60 --> 3256.96] Submit a request to fill it. |
[3256.98 --> 3258.20] Or do you have anybody available? |
[3258.20 --> 3260.14] How do you ask specifically? |
[3260.62 --> 3261.78] Like, how do you engage specifically? |
[3262.26 --> 3262.42] Yeah. |
[3262.54 --> 3265.36] So we don't, I don't really look at it as like a spot opening up. |
[3265.48 --> 3269.26] Like you're, if you're, if you have an open source project, you're always looking for contributors. |
[3269.26 --> 3271.48] So you're always looking for more people to get involved. |
[3272.44 --> 3278.44] And ideally, your governance documentation will give you some guidelines for how you recruit new contributors. |
[3278.76 --> 3285.14] So a lot of projects have, you know, governance so that the existing maintainers recruit the new maintainers, right? |
[3285.14 --> 3288.18] So they get to decide who gets to come in and maintain the project. |
[3288.30 --> 3289.88] So it depends a lot on your governance model. |
[3289.88 --> 3290.74] It depends on your project. |
[3290.88 --> 3293.22] It depends on what kind of contributions you're looking for. |
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