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**Pokey Rule:** Exactly. That's exactly right. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[01:04:05.16\] So is this like a meta thing that sits over the top of the OS? Is it an editor deal? |
**Pokey Rule:** Yeah, so I would say 90% of the codebase lives in a Visual Studio Code extension. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. |
**Pokey Rule:** So that's where most of the real bulk of the logic is, is in that VS Code extension. But basically, just to give you the stack, there's Talon Voice, which is the engine that you define the grammar of "Here's what you're allowed to say. You can say spike", whatever etc. In Talon you can define any gramma... |
And so basically, what we've defined -- so Talon is something you install on your computer, and it just runs, and it uses accessibility APIs, etc. And then cursorless is basically a grammar for Talon, combined with an engine in VS Code, and basically a way to send JSON payloads describing your commands from Talon to VS... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's interesting. |
**Jerod Santo:** So does Cursorless then add like the top hats and stuff for you to see? |
**Pokey Rule:** Exactly. So the VS Code extension will put those little hats on everything as well. |
**Jerod Santo:** But if you want to interact either outside of VS Code, or even like with \[unintelligible 01:05:10.27\] system and stuff, that's all just Talon stuff, right? |
**Pokey Rule:** So Talon itself -- in some sense, there's no command said that is baked into Talon. There is a community grammar, which pretty much everybody uses, and that does all that stuff. And so when you install Talon, it suggests to install the community grammar, to do things like controlling menus, and sending ... |
**Jerod Santo:** So does Cursorless replace that, or merge into it? |
**Pokey Rule:** It emerges into it. Yeah, exactly. And so because Cursorless is really laser-focused on code editing, things like, for example, if I want -- the community repo has things like Camel, which is a formatter. So if I say "camel Hello World", that's gonna type out "Hello World." So if I wanted to change -- l... |
**Jerod Santo:** Makes sense. |
**Pokey Rule:** So they integrate together, yes. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's cool. |
**Jerod Santo:** So in your talk, did you live demo, did you have any-- |
**Pokey Rule:** A bit controversial, but I did not technically have a live demo. What I did was I made a keynote presentation, with animated voice commands. So basically, Wizard of Oz voice coding. |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. |
**Pokey Rule:** Which made it way, way, way more visual than actually doing it. But then because I was worried there'd be a riot, I put up a QR code on my YouTube channel, so that people could see all my coding sessions. |
**Jerod Santo:** Alright, so you've got some stuff out on YouTube. I'm trying to see what people can watch, because the video will be out soon... And maybe you can get it out there by the time this episode goes out. So if people can watch your talk, they can go watch it - have you got other stuff on YouTube? |
**Pokey Rule:** Exactly. They could watch the talk to get an overview of what it is, et cetera, learn all about it, get that visual to understand it, and then if they want to see what it looks like at speed, then they can check out my YouTube channel, and I have things to teach you, and then things where I just turn on... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is it hard to pick up, like to adopt it? I know dev environments are highly personalized, in a lot of cases. Is this like a dev environment for you? How much of this translates to any given developer? |
**Pokey Rule:** Yeah, so it all translates to any given developer. But that being said, there is a learning curve, I'm not gonna lie. It's not like you just all of a sudden sit down and just like \[unintelligible 01:07:42.01\] It's a language you have to learn. But it took you a while to learn the keyboard too, right? ... |
**Jerod Santo:** How does it work with like stall-outs? And we talked about slurring... But imagine if I'm looking at my code, and I say "Spike every line--" What did you say, spike what? |
**Pokey Rule:** Spike every func air pass bat. |
**Jerod Santo:** Spike every func, and then I look over here, it's the c, I gotta be like cat... Is it cat? |
**Pokey Rule:** Yeah, let's call it cat. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Kitty. |
**Jerod Santo:** No, tell me the right one. I don't wanna be wrong. |
**Pokey Rule:** It's cap. You were pretty close. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[01:08:19.04\] So I say cap, and then I'm like "Ehhhmmm..." and then I find an f, and I say... |
**Pokey Rule:** Find. |
**Jerod Santo:** Find. |
**Pokey Rule:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** So I cap... |
**Pokey Rule:** Pass. |
**Jerod Santo:** Cap pass -- see, I already screwed up. Now my computer's blowing up. Nope, nope, nope! Cancel, cancel. Cap pass find. |
**Pokey Rule:** Yeah. Right. |
**Jerod Santo:** And like, is it waiting for me to get to that? |
**Pokey Rule:** Yeah, so there's something called the speech timeout, which is basically how long it's going to wait before it decides you're done with the command. |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. |
**Pokey Rule:** So you can configure that. Mine is 400 milliseconds. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** For sure. Okay, that's good. |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. |
**Pokey Rule:** So it's kind of like if you're halfway through it and that's when you use that horse click sound, and cancel it out... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. Gotcha. |
**Pokey Rule:** But yeah, no, it doesn't wait around for you. What you can do -- so people have other tricks. So there's this one buddy in Sweden who's like one of the core contributors, and he steals the trick that airplane pilots use. So he will be like "Chuck every func ehhhhh... Cap past ehhhh... Drum." |
**Jerod Santo:** So he just like stalls it with a sound. |
**Pokey Rule:** Yeah, because if you're like "Ehhhh" - there's what's called the voice activity detector. And as long as you're making that noise, it's like, you're still talking. |
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