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[994.76 --> 997.58] I'm still, see, I'm still unclear to this moment right now. |
[998.04 --> 998.30] Clarity. |
[998.74 --> 998.94] Yeah. |
[999.04 --> 999.26] Yeah. |
[999.36 --> 1003.04] It's tough because it broke off of Visual Studio, which was Microsoft's big IDE. |
[1003.42 --> 1004.60] Still exists today, right? |
[1004.64 --> 1005.54] Still progressing. |
[1005.54 --> 1011.06] But VS Code, Visual Studio Code was, you know, we remember the story of VS Code, Adam. |
[1011.12 --> 1013.48] We told it back in the day at Microsoft Build. |
[1013.72 --> 1014.10] Yes. |
[1014.52 --> 1015.96] Bridget, perhaps we have you here. |
[1016.00 --> 1018.16] We have a VS Code representative with us. |
[1018.74 --> 1022.92] Maybe you can dispel this notion that I've floated into the ether before. |
[1022.92 --> 1028.50] As VS Code continues to get better, but also just get more stuff, more and more and more |
[1028.50 --> 1029.06] and more and more. |
[1029.60 --> 1034.64] It's like, is there a future where VS Code is basically an IDE? |
[1034.90 --> 1039.52] Like, is it going to get so much that you'd say, well, we have two IDEs? |
[1039.68 --> 1044.52] Or is it always going to be a text editor with a bunch of niceties and features? |
[1044.90 --> 1046.48] Just curious from your perspective. |
[1046.66 --> 1050.62] Is that something you all think about as a potentiality, something you're trying to avoid, |
[1050.76 --> 1051.00] et cetera? |
[1051.00 --> 1056.82] Yeah, I mean, I think at its core, we always call VS Code an editor rather than a full-fledged |
[1056.82 --> 1058.94] IDE or integrated development environment. |
[1059.42 --> 1062.56] And I think that it's kind of somewhere in between. |
[1062.78 --> 1062.88] Right. |
[1062.96 --> 1068.20] So it's like maybe more than just like a super simple editor without many additions, because |
[1068.20 --> 1073.18] when you can have extensions that can do basically anything you can think of and other kinds |
[1073.18 --> 1078.40] of support we're adding and everything with remote, it's I don't think we would go to, |
[1078.40 --> 1080.28] hey, eventually, yeah, it'll just be an IDE. |
[1080.28 --> 1081.30] That's what we'll call it. |
[1081.36 --> 1085.36] But I think we just want it to be the tool that you can edit anything from anywhere. |
[1085.60 --> 1087.30] It's kind of the tagline we've been adding on. |
[1087.66 --> 1093.78] So in 2021, we released VS Code for the Web or VS Code.dev. |
[1094.06 --> 1099.26] So you can just go in your browser, type in VS Code.dev, and you'll see a version of VS Code |
[1099.26 --> 1100.80] running just entirely there in the browser. |
[1100.96 --> 1102.04] You didn't have to download anything. |
[1102.04 --> 1107.90] So with that, and then as we have a growing set of remote experiences and just more extensions |
[1107.90 --> 1112.74] and features overall, I think it's cool to see how much we can push VS Code and scenarios |
[1112.74 --> 1115.30] users are interested in and contributing back as well. |
[1115.44 --> 1119.96] But we always keep things like performance and not being too overwhelming in mind as well. |
[1120.08 --> 1124.74] So we try to keep the bigger vision as well of meeting what users want and what is more |
[1124.74 --> 1128.32] modern development without being like, let's just build everything in. |
[1128.32 --> 1132.30] I think you can kind of see it as there's a series of extensions you install as well or |
[1132.30 --> 1133.30] different things like that. |
[1133.36 --> 1137.32] It's not just we're going to build in all of these extensions for you always or something. |
[1138.18 --> 1138.80] I think that's wise. |
[1138.90 --> 1146.66] I think it'd be a shame if VS Code became so full of stuff that it was a full-on IDE by default. |
[1147.16 --> 1150.52] I mean, heck, you wouldn't really want to run that inside your web browser necessarily |
[1150.52 --> 1153.74] because it takes so long to load up or so much memory to run. |
[1153.74 --> 1158.18] So I've always liked that you had a clear break from Visual Studio. |
[1158.32 --> 1159.32] And a fresh start. |
[1159.74 --> 1165.46] And I think the editor over time has stayed relatively fast and lightweight. |
[1165.70 --> 1167.22] And it feels like you can just launch it immediately. |
[1168.06 --> 1171.56] And then from afar, I just see all the additional improvements and stuff. |
[1171.62 --> 1173.42] And I'm just like, wow, it's getting very full featured. |
[1174.02 --> 1176.36] And then I'm like, do they need Visual Studio eventually? |
[1176.56 --> 1177.60] Does it become one? |
[1177.86 --> 1180.20] Do they merge branches there? |
[1180.30 --> 1183.12] But I think you guys have a clear vision of what you want to do. |
[1183.12 --> 1185.56] And I think it's a pretty good one. |
[1185.98 --> 1191.24] With regard to what you say, you said, code anything anywhere. |
[1191.46 --> 1192.84] Is that the slogan? |
[1193.30 --> 1193.50] Yeah. |
[1193.78 --> 1197.76] We like to say, yeah, you can work on, edit, code anything from anywhere. |
[1198.40 --> 1199.34] Anything from anywhere. |
[1199.54 --> 1200.64] That's a, I like that one. |
[1200.72 --> 1202.22] So you're kind of on the anywhere side, right? |
[1202.22 --> 1208.64] Like your focus and your work is on the remote aspect, the anywhere aspect. |
[1209.20 --> 1213.06] How long have you been working on this spec in particular, dev containers? |
[1213.06 --> 1228.82] And when did you decide to take it beyond just a VS Code internal thing that allows VS Code to do remote and containers and stuff to be like a spec that you want other people to contribute to and other products and tool chains to adopt? |
[1228.82 --> 1229.22] Yeah. |
[1229.54 --> 1234.58] So I've been on the VS Code team since 2020. |
[1235.64 --> 1239.90] And I first joined and focused on the remote extensions. |
[1240.36 --> 1243.92] We had three main remote extensions, WSL, SSH, and dev containers. |
[1244.44 --> 1249.10] And then over the next year as well, we work really closely with the GitHub Codespaces team. |
[1249.26 --> 1250.82] And they also support dev containers. |
[1251.24 --> 1253.82] Just it's in the cloud instead of on your local machine. |
[1253.82 --> 1268.00] And as we were working on our dev containers extension and working with Codespaces, we saw, hey, like dev containers can be something broadly useful beyond just VS Code or GitHub tooling or Microsoft tools. |
[1268.20 --> 1272.90] It's something that people want to use even if they don't use VS Code or maybe they can't. |
[1272.96 --> 1276.92] Maybe their company uses something else or maybe they're doing all their work in the command line. |
[1276.92 --> 1284.70] And it makes sense to open it up as, hey, this is kind of like a standard that other people, other tools, other scenarios can adopt. |
[1284.90 --> 1287.76] And it doesn't need to be inherently tied just to VS Code. |
[1287.88 --> 1289.02] It's a general concept. |
[1289.54 --> 1297.00] It supports instead of like becoming its own container orchestration format, we're seeking to just enrich other ones. |
[1297.20 --> 1299.08] So we're not trying to replace other things. |
[1299.08 --> 1304.58] We're trying to say, hey, how can we interact and interop with them and just support people with what they want to do and want to contribute? |
[1304.58 --> 1313.40] So then we started openly working on the dev container spec the beginning of last year, maybe the end of the year before. |
[1313.64 --> 1315.86] So it's been year, year and a half or so. |
[1316.08 --> 1321.48] But I think like a vision going in was, hey, we don't think dev containers have to be tied to VS Code. |
[1321.58 --> 1326.06] And that was even when they were only a dev containers extension and GitHub Codespaces thing. |
[1326.50 --> 1328.72] So that's why the file is like devcontainer.json. |
[1328.82 --> 1332.96] It doesn't have to say specific things about VS Code in the file name or in its content. |
[1332.96 --> 1338.96] And we've even been taking steps as we've been working on the spec to generalize it beyond VS Code or Codespaces. |
[1339.24 --> 1345.68] So for certain properties in dev container JSON, like settings or extensions that may not make sense in other tooling, |
[1346.18 --> 1351.20] we've now extracted them to a top level property for specifically VS Code and Codespaces. |
[1351.44 --> 1353.32] That way it's like, hey, use those tools. |
[1353.42 --> 1353.70] Awesome. |
[1353.96 --> 1354.76] They can handle it. |
[1354.76 --> 1362.54] And then over time, other supporting tools, as other tools decide to support the spec or contribute to it, could also reserve their own properties in there as well. |
[1362.74 --> 1365.70] So it's all under customizations.convision. |
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