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**Adam Stacoviak:** \[unintelligible 00:16:22.20\] Let's try again. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So I'm curious, because it seems like you've got a repeatable way to support projects. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So it makes sense that if it's supporting cloud-native, and it's open source, you'd want it as part of your organization. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** I remember now, yeah. So I will go back to, like, there's my personal answer, and then there's probably the party line. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Can you give us the personal answer? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** The personal answer is I don't think that would be healthy for the ecosystem. Again, the tangent of the TOC and the fact that they say they are no kingmakers - same thing; I also think that if all projects were in one foundation, that's probably not healthy for the ecosystem. Like, cloud-native does n... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Like, there's Nomad. HashiCorp has Nomad; that's a container orchestration platform. There's still a lot of work being put in and around Nomad, but that's not -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But they're an IPO-ed company though, so it makes sense why Nomad isn't there, because that would be troublesome for their business. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** True, but Nomad is an open source project. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There's a weight though to being a project in the CNCF. You have the CNCF landscape, so by nature, you want to communicate what is and isn't. But at the same time, doesn't that give it a weight to a project that is? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Well, landscape is a bad example, because the CNCF landscape has projects that aren't CNCF adopted, or CNCF projects. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's true. I'll give you that. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** So I was actually thinking Nomad might actually be on the landscape. I haven't looked. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, let me give you this example... So we've been here for eight hours, ten hours... I have talked to two people who have said, "Hi, I'm X, and I'm with Project Y. We're in the CNCF." And it's like, there's a -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** A trend. |
**Jerod Santo:** There's clout to that. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** So aren't the TOC then -- I mean, they are kind of are kingmakers in that sense, right? Because they're the ones who decide who's in, and everyone who says that they're in, now they're like cooler than they used to be. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** They can leverage the brand equity of the CNCF. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** True. But in that case, the TOC isn't like picking one technology over another, at least with the sandbox. What's usually happening is they're judging maturity, whether it does fit -- like, whether it is a cloud-native thing or not. If my transcoding software, or some other random project that has not... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, it makes sense that it has to be like inside the scope. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There's a velvet rope. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** So my personal opinion is I don't think that's healthy for the ecosystem. |
**Jerod Santo:** Sure. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** But that said - and I think the party line would be "If you want to be supported in the ecosystem, and have the namesake of the foundation behind you - yeah, you probably want to join the CNCF." I also have feelings that sometimes, some projects probably shouldn't have applied. But again, that's my pe... |
**Jerod Santo:** Your job is to support the ones that do make it in, however they need support. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** \[19:52\] Yup. And honestly, projects that aren't in the CNCF, but are in the landscape - I'm still like around to support and talk to, because again, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing to have projects outside. Also projects outside looking in could potentially spawn other projects that do... |
**Jerod Santo:** Sure. Do you like this job? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Yeah. Best job I've ever had, and I'm not just saying that because... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's being recorded? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Because it's being recorded and I'm standing in a Linux Foundation event... No. My not-so-brief, but honestly, short resume career - I worked at the University of Michigan for 16 years, and then Red Hat for three. And then I started here a year and a half ago. So out of those -- not getting into like ... |
**Jerod Santo:** And your path came through contributing to Kubernetes? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Yup. I actually did a little bit of contribution back in ye old days; we're talking 2014, when it was just open sourced and had to sign a Google CLA to contribute to it... Then my path at the university kind of took me away from it after probably a year, and then I started contributing again in early ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. It's a Cinderella story. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's a Cinderella story... \[laughter\] So you say you like this job? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Yeah, I love it. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What do you like most? What is your favorite thing that you get to do every day? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** I feel like this job actually has a real impact on people's lives. When I worked at the University of Michigan, one of the things I did was informatics, and like directly impacting patient care. I loved that. I'm not saying patient care and open source are similar, but there is definitely that impact ... |
**Jerod Santo:** No, that's cool. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Make the world a better place. Change lives. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** I was always taught to leave the world better than you found it. I'm one of those people that will make the bed in a hotel room when I'm leaving. |
**Jerod Santo:** Hah! I didn't know those people existed. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** They don't. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Okay, so I'm a psychopath apparently, or...? \[laughter\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's the endowment effect. That's what this is. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's the Jeefy effect. |
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