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**Adam Stacoviak:** The endowment effect is that you don't wash your rental. |
**Jerod Santo:** Say what? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You don't wash your rental car, for example. It's the endowment effect. If you own it, you think it's more valuable. And when you don't own it, you think is less valuable. That's why we don't wash our rental cars. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, but he makes his bed in his hotel room. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I know! He's the anti-endowment effect. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, okay. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Have either of you -- I can never remember the social experiment or the dude that did this, but Do either of you know about the shopping cart? I don't even know what to call it... |
**Jerod Santo:** No. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Someone decided that you can tell whether a person was - not necessarily good or bad, but more focused on the whole, versus the self, based on what they do in a grocery store parking lot. Do they put their shopping cart back where they are supposed to put it or not? And then you can watch people, and ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. You know, in ye old days, supermarkets used to employ people that would walk your -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, guess what \[unintelligible 00:24:03.18\] still does it. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[24:06\] ...stuff out to you. Do they still do that? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Sorry, I spoke too soon. They do it for some. Usually, for senior citizens, and -- |
**Jerod Santo:** Pregnant people... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I don't know about trendy people... |
**Jerod Santo:** No, pregnant I said... \[laughs\] They're like "Nice shoes. I wanna walk your groceries out." \[laughter\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Trendy people... |
**Jerod Santo:** Do you remember that, back in the day? Were you around back then? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Yes, but... Kind of a small town in Southeast Michigan, that never really happened. |
**Jerod Santo:** They never did that? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** If it was a senior citizen, or someone that needed help. |
**Jerod Santo:** There was a position called bagger. Wasn't it called bagger? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Yeah. I mean, they still have baggers around now. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There's still baggers in my grocery store... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, but the bagger would actually walk with you out to your car, and load the bags into your car, and then they'd take your cart and they'd take it back. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Now that's called whoever delivers something to your car when you mobile-order it from Target or like PetSmart. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I do miss those days. There's something about that. I think you're onto something, Jerod, because what you said you liked about your job, and how you get to change lives is similar to this, because every step of the way you get to support, you get to make the process, the experience a little easier,... |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Yes, the CNCF is the bagger position of open source. I see where this is going now... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, I've got mad respect for the CNCF... I think you've unified a diverse -- let's hypothesize... If the CNCF did never exist, or it was never formed, if cloud-native was never termed - or even if it is termed, it doesn't matter - how would the world be if there was no CNCF to tie it all together? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** That's actually tough to hypothesize... So one of the biggest benefits, thinking at a super-high level, is we're a neutral place for these large vendors to be able to collaborate and essentially make everything better for the consumer in a standardized way. Take that away, and what do you have? You ha... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Proprietary. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Everything winds up being proprietary... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. And wasted effort. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** No clarity, no focus on users... |
**Jeffrey Sica:** I mean, they'll focus on users so far as once they get you in there... |
**Jerod Santo:** Silence. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** ...you're locked in. Like, major vendor lock-in. I think that's the biggest thing. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. That's probably true. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** The vendor lock-in would be horrible. I can't even imagine it. And I'm trying to remember back in Heroku, PHP, like 2008-2009 days of hosting web services, everyone kind of had their own thing... But even then, it wasn't that bad. Stuff made sense. But also, no one was really sticking around long enou... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, exactly. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** So... Hey, look, I can spin up a VM on my box, make sure it works, and then ship the whole thing. It sucks, but doable. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Sure. Jeff, I'm glad you talked to us, man. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Dude, this is awesome. Thank you. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Thank you for sharing your story, and the CNCF stuff, and all that good stuff. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Shout-out to Kara for dragging me away from the booth... |
**Jerod Santo:** Real quick, what's your favorite project, and what's your least favorite project? Go! |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Absolutely not. I refuse. \[laughter\] This interview was over. Imagine me knocking over the microphone. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, not the project. But the people. Tell us who is your favorite person, and your least -- I'm just messing... |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Oh, actually, I can at least tell you my favorite person... |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. |
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