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**Jeffrey Sica:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Pretty much... |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Honestly, what I'm really doing is I'm a community member first. I came up as a Kubernetes contributor. Been around for a while, so I know a lot of people, I know a lot of the communities and open source projects around it... So I can go and talk with them and figure out "Hey, what do you need? How ca... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Gotcha. You take the requirements from the customers, and then you give them to the developers. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I'm just kidding. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** I joined the foundation, so I don't have to hear those words... \[laughter\] |
\[07:59\] |
*What you do within a tech is you take the specifications from the customers, and you bring them down to the software engineers.* |
*Yes. Yes, that's, that's right.* |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I recently watched Office Space, so I had to bring it in... Again. |
**Jerod Santo:** How many projects are there? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** 160. And right now, as of whatever today is -- the 10th, May 10th... I think there's 12. So there's some number above like seven or eight that are currently getting voted on to be adopted into what's called the CNCF sandbox. Think of it proof of concept projects, projects that don't necessarily have a... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I like it. I'm down with that. I talk with my hands too, when I get super-excited. And I'm super-excited right now. So you've got sandbox, you've got incubation, you've got graduated. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Oh, yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. So you're not over all projects, but you are over most projects. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Let's talk to people in the CNCF and see which -- no. Honestly, it's over all projects, because I'm interacting with projects at every different level, it's just - I don't want to say I'm in charge of all of them. That's not true at all. But I would say I communicate with all of them, and I'm trying t... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Gotcha. Give us an example. How does that play out for recent, for you? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Recently, when I joined and one of the things that I've been really pushing for is a lot of the processes to grant projects access to cloud resources, that are like group cloud resources under the CNCF, or we have licensed scanning services - we want to give those to the projects, and then step out of... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** 160 projects...?! |
**Jeffrey Sica:** And we're not slowing down. |
**Jerod Santo:** And 12 more are being added. That's crazy. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** No, those are up for vote... Those are up for TOC vote... |
**Jerod Santo:** How many get rejected? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** I actually don't have that off the top of my head. I would be willing to guess sandbox-wise it's probably 75% acceptance rate, but please do not hold me to that right now. |
**Jerod Santo:** Alright, so 9 out of 12 are getting in. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Hey, hey... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] We're not naming names... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What is the - I guess "motivation" probably might not be the best word, but what does the CNCF do in terms of like -- you've got 160 projects... What's the long-term goal? Is it to be bigger than that? What service do you provide to the cloud-native world? What is it that you all do, or hope to do? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** This is going to be interesting, because if you ask different people in the CNCF, you might get a different answer. And there might be a canned response, and I should know it... My answer is there is - aside from the couple stable patterns, like Kubernetes and the way that it has an API, and like decl... |
\[12:05\] So this is a long-winded way of saying we have this foundational technology, at this point we're accepting additional projects to help flesh out what cloud-native actually means. And the definition itself is evolving. We have a bunch of WebAssembly projects. Well, why is that? Because at its core, WebAssembly... |
So - geez, what would I do? TL;DR, we're accepting a bunch of projects because not all of the problems or questions have been answered in what cloud-native is. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Gotcha. So you're attempting to, and in many ways succeeding in defining the foundation of cloud-native. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And everything was originally built on Kubernetes, because that's what I guess was the founding project that really kicked off... So we come back from the Dan Khon days, early CNCF days... Miss you, Dan. But like we were there when it was just two or three projects; a very small CNCF. The original f... |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Geez... Honestly, what is next? The definition of cloud-native in a nutshell is really doing distributed computing in a repeatable way. I mean, that's my definition, in my old noggin. But that doesn't mean always use Kubernetes. Sure, right now, hey, Kubernetes is -- I mean, you look at all the stats,... |
So what is the end goal? We don't really have an end goal, aside from if you were doing some sort of distributed computing, like trying to solve or consume or build distributed computing, distributed platforms, how can we do it but make sure that how it's being done is in an open source way? Maybe Kubernetes goes by th... |
Like, the reason why right now Kubernetes is like -- I don't want to say flagship, but the big thing that everyone thinks of with the CNCF is because of its popularity, not because the CNCF is saying "Everyone use Kubernetes." If something else just starts shooting up and to the right, we also want to be there to help ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Do you all want all open source projects that support cloud-native to be a part of the CNCF? |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Not necessarily. Well, that's probably not a good thing to say for, you know, me and my employer... But honestly, I think that would not -- part of the charter in the CNCF, specifically the TOC, is they are not kingmakers. The TOC, the Technical Oversight Committee, which is like elected positions - t... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Support. |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Support, do all that sort of thing. So I'm coming at this as... "My opinion, man..." \[laughter\] |
\[15:57\] *"Yeah, well, you know, that's just your opinion, man..."* |
**Jeffrey Sica:** Honestly, I tangented. I already forgot the original question. \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. We're always over here in The Big Lebowski... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I could ask it again... |
**Jeffrey Sica:** \[16:09\] Please. I will do The Big Lebowski references for the whole podcast, that's the problem. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** These guys are trying to joke with me and I'm trying to ask a question here... |
**Jerod Santo:** We're hoping you forget it, so that he doesn't have to answer it... I'm with you, but I'm just saying, he's trying to dodge it. Let's keep going... \[laughs\] |
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