text stringlengths 0 2.67k |
|---|
**Bailey Hayes:** Yeah, I would say footprint-wise, wasmCloud is vastly smaller. Or any of these other WASM solutions. But also, in terms of orchestration, it has the WASM cold start versus the container cold start, so much more advantageous from that perspective. Now, in terms of what languages can I write in and targ... |
**Justin Garrison:** Can you describe to me what the Bytecode Alliance does? That's been one of those things that's on the side, where it's like when I look at this portable binaries, I look at an Elf binary that I have on Linux, and I'm like "I can run this on any Linux Kernel that supports some level of C, or whateve... |
**Bailey Hayes:** Yeah. Hey, it could be an interpreter. There's \[unintelligible 00:47:27.23\] working on its own interpreter... So it's a play with WebAssembly, too. So the Bytecode Alliance is a nonprofit foundation. There were a lot of things informed right at the same time that WASI Preview1 shipped in 2019. And t... |
\[48:11\] We also knew that we needed to find a way to solve this problem that the industry is facing, which is giving everything all at once, the entire environment, access to the whole operating system, just all of it, and trying to isolate it by stuffing things into container-sized boxes, and then wrapping lots of s... |
**Justin Garrison:** It works, but it doesn't work. But from a maintenance perspective, it's a huge burden, from like a "How do I actually secure this and know that it's definitely a secured perspective?" It's not the right solution. And starting all the way back to that Bytecode format is where you can start from the ... |
So today, if I write something in a container, I'm giving it all the environment variables that are exposed in the container, which also means all of my third-party dependencies that I installed in it for my application... So you know, crack open your Node modules folder, all of them have all of that... And they have y... |
**Autumn Nash:** It freaks me out, all these companies where like "We'll have automation in AI take all of your variables, and it's going to build your infrastructure for you, and it's going to secure this, and do that." And I feel like you're gonna have a lot of customers when they try these things that are like "Let'... |
**Bailey Hayes:** There's a reason that we've had low-code solutions around for a decade, and it's never really taken off. And I would argue that it the problem to solve, the problem for these large enterprises that are building entire fleets of microservices - it's about the maintenance; it's about the burden of havin... |
**Taylor Thomas:** Yeah. |
**Autumn Nash:** But then if you have something that's autonomously writing the code for you, you have no idea how to fix it, or what went wrong with it when it goes wrong. |
**Taylor Thomas:** \[51:58\] I love what you said, Autumn, about the whole -- like, you're giving the keys to the kingdom of something, and if you think about it, the other pendulum swing that I always talk about is... This is obviously high-level; you can dig down and there's more details... But late '90s, early 2000s... |
If developers are programming against interfaces, it means that it's a lot simpler. They don't have to decide which Redis client they're using, or which version of X thing they've got to use... They've just got to decide which interface they're going to use. And then they can code against the interface. And because it'... |
So you're not siloing people, but you're providing a really good layer of abstraction for the developers to say "I need X", and for the platform engineers to say "I am providing you these building blocks with these interfaces. Please use them, and then I'll take care of the details for you to connect those things." Bec... |
And so putting that back in the middle, it separates out and gets rid of the whole -- giving the whole keys of the kingdom to be able to do everything to all things. And that's something I really have loved about WASM, and that's why I got involved in it in the beginning... Because that was one of my problems, having w... |
**Autumn Nash:** Do you ever wonder why developers are like that, though? ...where they're like "We don't want to touch any of it", or we want to know every single fine-grained -- |
**Justin Garrison:** It's a shared operational problem, because you're putting some of the operational burden, the maintenance side of it into the development cycle, and you're saying "Hey, you have to be responsible upfront to tell me what access you need, and all those other things." And the way we've been doing it, ... |
But for my younger son, he doesn't have all those same things that he can do, and he's building up from like "Hey, if I give him a couple things that he can do, and say "Hey, will you take out the trash for me, and also, I'll let you play this video game", he loves it. He's like "This is amazing. I can do all this stuf... |
So we're either dropping everything for someone that has all the access, or building up from someone that hadn't had it before, and moving that to the developer and saying "You need to tell me upfront what you need to do, and I will give you that access in production, and then we'll both be happy as we maintain this st... |
**Autumn Nash:** \[56:13\] See, I think it's like this pendulum keeps swinging, and I think that WASM is giving people an in the middle -- it's making it more accessible for someone who doesn't have the experience, but it's also making it where you can do the things that you need to do. It's like security. You want som... |
**Justin Garrison:** Bailey, Taylor, thank you so much for coming on the show and describing WASI, and WASM, and wasmCloud to us. This has been great. And diving deep into it. If people want to reach out online, I know you're both within different organizations... CNCF as far as the WASM space, and then the W3C, as wel... |
**Bailey Hayes:** Thank you for having us. |
**Taylor Thomas:** Thanks for having us. |
**Autumn Nash:** Talking to you guys was a pleasure. |
**Break**: \[57:14\] |
**Justin Garrison:** Thank you so much, Bailey and Taylor, for coming on and talking to us all about just WebAssembly in general. All the stuff in the ecosystem, what wasmCloud does, and how it's kind of a difference... And in correcting me on my assumptions around like "Is Kubernetes and WASM kind of different sides o... |
**Autumn Nash:** I thought your analogies were really good, especially with the kid one. I thought that was new levels of dad joke, dad -- |
**Justin Garrison:** It's just real life for me. The more you try to take away from a kid that access... |
**Autumn Nash:** We're old... These are our analogies? Are we old people? Like... |
**Justin Garrison:** Hopefully, the podcast listeners can relate, because I don't know the age demographics, but... If you don't have kids yet, you might remember when you were grounded, not too long ago. |
**Autumn Nash:** Sometimes I wish I could ground myself. Like, I need a nap and I want to stay in my room and read a book all day... And my kids complain about that. And I'm like "Yo, can you do the laundry and work, and I'm gonna be over here with my book?" |
**Justin Garrison:** Yeah. "And don't give me \*bleep\* about taking naps, alright?" |
**Autumn Nash:** Thank you... You are king of naps, okay? |
**Justin Garrison:** I love naps. |
**Autumn Nash:** I swear I've never seen someone that naps like you do. And how do you fall asleep that fast? What goes on? |
**Justin Garrison:** 12 minutes. All I need. It's great. |
**Autumn Nash:** I think I would wake up more grouchy, and nobody would want to put up with me... So I just keep drinking coffee. |
**Justin Garrison:** And that's the problem. If you take a nap too long -- if it's a 30-minute or more nap, you're grouchy. |
**Autumn Nash:** How did you master this? |
**Justin Garrison:** My kids. I never napped before having kids. |
**Autumn Nash:** You only have two of them. \[unintelligible 01:03:35.23\] |
**Justin Garrison:** I know. It's true. I don't know how you have three. |
**Autumn Nash:** Why do you think I drink so much coffee, Justin? Okay, what are RFCs? Tell us what this is. |
**Justin Garrison:** Yeah. Today's outro, we're gonna talk about RFCs. And if you're not familiar with them, they are -- it stands for Request for Comments, and it's part of the IETF, which is a standards body that has been around for a very, very long time. And RFCs have been around for, I believe, 50 years now. I for... |
**Autumn Nash:** Justin, who wakes up and says "I love ASCII diagrams. They just make me happy"? |
**Justin Garrison:** I love me a good ASCII diagram. Look, I have a GitHub repo called Awesome TUIs, which is basically functional ASCII diagrams. That's all it is. |
**Autumn Nash:** You collect GitHub repos like other people collect domain names, okay? |
**Justin Garrison:** GitHub repos are cheaper. |
**Autumn Nash:** You know what? You're not wrong. Maybe you're doing it the correct way. |
**Justin Garrison:** But I was reading RFCs this last week... I don't remember -- did I tell you what I was reading? |
**Autumn Nash:** I don't remember. But all I know is you were like -- I white papers, so when you come up with white papers, I get excited. This, I'm a little bit scared. Like... |
Subsets and Splits
No community queries yet
The top public SQL queries from the community will appear here once available.