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**Justin Garrison:** And yeah, anyone that talks to me that's like "Oh, private schools have better educations", I'm like "I am proof that they are not." That was not my experience. I went to private school from - what - fifth grade, all the way through college, and got my master's degree, and... |
**Autumn Nash:** And I bet you your mom probably like stayed at that job so you could go to that school, too. |
**Justin Garrison:** Oh, yeah. Absolutely. She was there for a while so that me and my sisters could go to that. |
**Autumn Nash:** And it's wild, because people are over here working two jobs to like put their kids in those private schools, you know? |
**Justin Garrison:** Yeah. And then I talked to my wife about all the things that she learned in public school from the education in the classrooms, and outside of the classrooms, that I didn't learn about. There's so much more to learn in high school. My class was 42 people; my graduating class in high school. |
**Autumn Nash:** Oh, gosh. |
**Justin Garrison:** So yeah, I didn't learn a lot of things. |
**Autumn Nash:** Like, we were like 500. It's wild. And I was on a tiny island, Justin. What was going on...? |
**Justin Garrison:** So it's fun. But yeah, just, we wanted to go and share some books that we recently read, or reread, and were interested in, for anyone else out there that is interested in those same things... Because there's a lot more out there than just what's on the internet and social media. |
**Autumn Nash:** I love a good book. |
**Justin Garrison:** Yeah. I listen to all my books. I can't read. Which I also found out about myself fairly recently... But I have one of those -- I forget what it's called. But when someone tells you to like picture something in your mind - there's no picture there. Like, someone tells you like "Picture an apple", a... |
I can think of things about apples, and like metadata about apples basically, but I can't -- I don't see anything. |
**Autumn Nash:** I like how you said that, metadata. That's wild. I just assumed everybody \[unintelligible 01:18:43.15\] |
**Justin Garrison:** And a lot of people -- like, my whole entire family, they're like "Wait, you don't see an apple?" I'm like "No." |
**Autumn Nash:** How do you meditate? |
**Justin Garrison:** I sleep. |
**Autumn Nash:** My brain's just too loud to meditate. |
**Justin Garrison:** I can't close my eyes and like not sleep. It's just -- |
**Autumn Nash:** You are narcoleptic, okay? |
**Justin Garrison:** That's what it is. But yeah, no, and so like thinking differently about things is one of those things where it's just like "Oh--" My wife is always like -- I'm a terrible speller. And she's just like "Well, just spell out the word in your head." I'm like "Why would that help? I can't see the word."... |
**Autumn Nash:** I'm a terrible speller, too... Which is why it pisses me off that they're integrating all these new machine learning and AIs into spell check, and it's made it worse... Because I'm like "I need you!" |
**Justin Garrison:** Yeah, every time I second-guess myself when my browser underlines something, I'm like "I'm pretty sure that's the right spelling", and I have to go look it up in search, and it's the right spelling. Then I've got to go add it to my browser library... |
**Autumn Nash:** Yes, me too. |
**Justin Garrison:** Thank you, everyone, for listening. Oh, I forgot. This episode's going out, I believe -- I think it's in September. I'm going to be in London at a conference, SRE Day, in London. I am speaking at the conference. I'm also hosting a conference called TalosCon, for work. I try not to mix this podcast ... |
So check them out. I'll put those links in the show notes, so anyone could sign up and come if you're in London, or around, in a travel area of London. I'd love to meet you in person, so please reach out. And we will talk to you all soon. |
**Autumn Nash:** Take me to London in your suitcase. |
**Justin Garrison:** I have so much computers I'm bringing... You won't fit. Look at my CD stack. I'm burning CDs for the conference. This is all our swag. |
**Autumn Nash:** Who even does that? |
**Justin Garrison:** I know, right? |
**Autumn Nash:** I love it. Just... Who does that? It's great. |
• The hosts discuss their fatigue about a short workweek feeling like it's just compressing work into less time |
• Anurag Goel, CEO and founder of Render, joins the podcast to talk about his company |
• Render is described as a platform for running applications, similar to Heroku but with modern infrastructure abilities |
• Anurag discusses how he started Render after seeing the challenge of managing AWS infrastructure at Stripe |
• He explains that he was motivated by solving a hard problem and creating a product for developers, rather than trying to sell a dream or solution |
• The hosts discuss the need for more infrastructure engineers and how colleges currently prioritize application engineering over infrastructure engineering |
• Making it easy for developers to get started with Render |
• Differentiating from managed cloud platforms like AWS and Azure by exposing only necessary primitives at each stage of development |
• Balancing ease of use with flexibility and control as applications scale |
• Providing features that cater to the needs of growing applications, such as private networking, service discovery, and network isolation |
• The importance of understanding customer needs and being close to customers who are scaling on the platform |
• Documentation and in-product guidance for developers |
• Importance of good logs, documentation, and error messages for user success |
• Architecture and infrastructure of Render (Kubernetes on top of AWS/GCP) |
• Challenges faced by the CEO/Founder in scaling the company and building a platform team |
• Engineering challenges and DDoS attacks encountered during growth |
• Challenges faced by the company due to DDoS attacks and their decision to change architecture to rely on Cloudflare |
• Issues with bare metal providers, including Equinix Metal, lacking L4 level attack protection |
• Problems with Google Kubernetes Engine (GKE) control plane, leading to service downtime during a critical period |
• Decision to own end-to-end clusters and not solely rely on cloud providers for cluster management |
• Plans to contribute back to open source projects, such as Tilt and Bazel development configurations |
• Architecture of customer-to-Kubernetes-cluster relationship, including use of namespaces and multi-tenant clusters with security measures in place. |
• Complexity of isolation in multi-tenant environments |
• Render's approach to isolation and security |
• Shared load balancing and routing layers |
• Kubernetes API abstraction vs. managed Kubernetes providers |
• Simplifying the cloud for application developers |
• Focus on high-level products and features over infrastructure management |
• Learnings from bare metal to cloud transition |
• Prioritizing customer value over technological coolness as a startup |
• Value proposition: prioritizing customer value over platform optimization |
• Trade-offs in technology choices: balancing reliability, cost, and simplicity |
• Customer-centric approach: focusing on solving real problems and meeting specific needs |
• Platform engineering: enabling customers to connect external services and tools |
• Innovation through problem-solving: responding to customer requests rather than creating solutions in search of a problem |
• The panel discusses the overemphasis on AI and its potential solutions to problems nobody asked for. |
• Autumn Nash emphasizes the importance of solving real-world problems and gathering feedback from customers through open channels like email support. |
• Justin Garrison notes that customer emails can be more valuable than log data in debugging issues. |
• Anurag Goel shares how Render's multi-tenant Kubernetes clusters are designed to make engineering lives easier. |
• The panel discusses the importance of contributing back to open-source communities and maintaining software. |
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