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**Elecia White:** And as a human, I just -- cities and self-driving cars... I worked on autonomous vehicles, and not just underwater, but self-driving, large off-road vehicles. And we did it almost entirely with cameras. But part of our goal for the future was dealing with Stop signs and pedestrians. And I spent a lot ... |
That's one of the problems with medical devices. When we talk about doing embedded systems in medical devices, it's usually there's some element of "Oh my goodness, there's so much documentation. There's so much documentation the FDA needs." And that's primarily to make us understand the ramifications of the points we'... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[50:23\] Sure. |
**Elecia White:** You have a much bigger amount of damage you can do with a larger plane. Medical devices are a little confusing, because -- and safety critical devices, medical or vehicles, have a problem that you can have thousands of them in the field when they start to fail. And so your problem is not that you have... |
And so the thing with cars is that we keep trying to make them better in small ways, but I feel like we've kind of reached a local minima, that we're not gonna get better with just cameras. I'm not even sure we're gonna get better with just a LiDAR. But I don't know how to build in that feeling of where the car is, the... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** As an outsider who - I'm not sure I would ever even venture into the world of what it would take to be on a team that creates autonomous cars... I'm a fan from afar, let's just say, of the idea. |
**Elecia White:** Me too. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I like the idea, but I think it's -- this is lame, and this is from the outside. It seems perpetually flawed, because it's not a closed system. There's just so many flaws in the system that you can almost never predict. You can predict a lot of the various ones, but you can't predict all of them, ev... |
**Elecia White:** As a human, you can't do either. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, I think your point about the horizontal scale, Elecia, if that's just the way I'll say it, is that we have crazily bad 16-year-old drivers, but it's not like at a specific moment in time this percentage of all cars on the road are gonna turn into that. |
The error that happens spread across a fleet of cars all running the same software, for instance, that makes the same mistake all at once is catastrophic. Of course, the famous or infamous -- I think this was the first Tesla that killed somebody... That was in FSD mode. It was because it came over a hill and the sun wa... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. I mean, I've been that human, Jerod, that's coming up over hill with the sun. |
**Jerod Santo:** And you're 16? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[53:57\] And I can emp -- well, not even at any age, really. I mean, period. As even a good driver, I would say, a marginally good driver. I think I've had -- the most recent accident I had, which was like the one I didn't cause... The deer hit me. And this was like a year-ish ago. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, some things can't be avoided. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I mean, this deer wasn't like random at nighttime, when you would think a deer would be out. It was nine in the morning, in town. Like, where other cars were at. It wasn't a time when deers should be running necessarily. |
**Jerod Santo:** He was looking for your car. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Ran right into me. And then the other time was - geez, probably 20 years ago. And it was just wet. And I just didn't stop in time. Like, I stopped, but my car decided to skid, because that's what happens. |
**Jerod Santo:** It slid a little bit. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. And sure, I could have been paying a little better attention... But I'm a pretty good driver, is the point of the last 45 seconds. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's the point you're trying to get across? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I'm a pretty decent driver. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But I've been in a scenario where the sun has completely overtaken my vision, completely... I do recall, seconds beforehand, what was in front of me... And so I went now from literal memory, with confidence of my next driving maneuvers straight, and around the bend a little bit... Because I was goin... |
**Jerod Santo:** One of the reasons why I've been tentatively positive about this progress is because of how many accidents there are, and because how distracted and bad we are at driving, even though we are amazing, Elecia, to your point about the actual physicality of observing the world that we're in, and that conne... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Can we go back to my idea of this closed system? Like, is that even a possibility? To your point, Jerod, can we create a closed system? |
**Elecia White:** Freeways and trucks. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Elecia White:** Self-driving on freeways and trucks, I think, is a better possibility. Freeways have a much smaller number of things that can go wrong. And it is more of -- it's not a closed system, but it is a differently constrained system. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. And a smaller problem set. |
**Elecia White:** I mean, if they had their own roads, it would be much simpler. Then it would be truly closed. And in the meantime, I think we can get closer on freeways more than anything. I mean, there have been a lot of -- most of the new cars now will have lane keeping, and keeping up with the person in front of y... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[58:15\] Yeah. |
**Elecia White:** I think it's getting there. And I like the idea of a closed system, but at some point you do go back to being a train. |
**Jerod Santo:** And so you're laying track. |
**Elecia White:** Or laying pavement that can only be used by this form of self-driving. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. Some sort of guardrail, parameters, boundaries, something that says "This is where you should be. And if you're not here, then you can no longer operate", or something changes to no longer be the danger possibility, so to speak. |
**Elecia White:** We'll put sensors in the roads. We'll have it monitor the car in front of you. And humidity conditions. And then the sensors in the roads will talk to the cars. "Wait, wait, let me scribble this down..." \[laughter\] |
**Jerod Santo:** I need to invest in a smart rock company, because we're gonna be selling a lot of smart rocks. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Well, as we're knee-deep in this conversation, I was just thinking, one of the most probably globally known, most people have bought one at least at one point in their life, or want one, an embeddable system - is like a GoPro, for example. That dude who founded that company was just surfing, a... |
**Elecia White:** Yes. There are lots of times when it's like I have a problem, and I know how to fix it because I know how to wire things together. But I also have that same feeling in software, that sometimes I can invent something just pure software. I do origami, and I write Python scripts. I write very long and co... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's crazy. |
**Jerod Santo:** What do the scripts do for you? |
**Elecia White:** They create crease patterns, which I can then use a laser cutter or Cricut or other device to pre-score paper. Then I can fold along the wavy lines, which will give me origami that is not flat, that is patterned, and weird and wavy, in organic methods. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Does this exist in the world? Can you do that? Can you go buy that product right now? |
**Elecia White:** No. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, then you just invented something. |
**Elecia White:** I mean, there's curved origami out there, yes. Yes, there are other people who do curved origami. |
**Jerod Santo:** This is just a world that I have not been introduced to, so I don't know it exists. |
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